Question about wool types

[foto010101]

Hi,

I have seen various classes of wool passing on this forum: super 100, super 120,..., super 180. From what I have read I conclude that the higher the number the more delicate the fabric is.

I would like to have a fabric that is durable. Should I try to get the lowest number possible? Is super 120 generally considered durable? Can somebody please elaborate on this topic?

Hope to get some reactions,

Mike

 

[Will]

Originally Posted by foto010101

Hi,

I have seen various classes of wool passing on this forum: super 100, super 120,..., super 180. From what I have read I conclude that the higher the number the more delicate the fabric is.

I would like to have a fabric that is durable. Should I try to get the lowest number possible? Is super 120 generally considered durable? Can somebody please elaborate on this topic?

Hope to get some reactions,

Mike

Very generally, lower number Supers are more durable than the higher numbered ones.

But that's secondary. The most important thing is to get worsted fabric with guts from a high quality supplier. Lesser and Holland & Sherry are just two of the world's best sources.

 

[yachtie]

A lot if it is hype. the number is a notation of how much yarn can be woven from a given amount of fleece, so indirectly it is a measure of fibre size (higher number-thinner fibre). Ideally, you wouldn't try to extract the maximum amount of yarn out of the bale, but as fine fiber wool is very expensive, that's often what happens and you wind up with a very delicate and very expensive fabric.

For durability, worsted 80's and 100's are generallywhere you'd want to be, but it really goes by cloth (some 150's will wear better than some 100's).

 

[Jovan]

I think 120's is a good compromise, myself. I've seen a lot of Italian fabrics in 110's though.

 

[nighttrain7404]

So 180s are not durable? Aren't 180s and 150s the softest?

 

[grimslade]

Yes--soft and potentially delicate. This is the trade-off, roughly speaking. Of course, there are better and worse 150s and 180s.

 

[kitonbrioni]

Get the best quality wool you can, and forget about the numbers.

 

[nighttrain7404]

Originally Posted by kitonbrioni

Get the best quality wool you can, and forget about the numbers.

What is the best quality wool?

 

[Will]

Probably Escorial from New Zealand but it's not woven to be particularly durable.

The Super 80s and Super 90 worsteds that are the mainstream cloth used in Savile Row bespoke clothing are probably the best combination of durability and quality.

 

[Full Canvas]

Originally Posted by foto010101

Hi,

I have seen various classes of wool passing on this forum: super 100, super 120,..., super 180. From what I have read I conclude that the higher the number the more delicate the fabric is.

I would like to have a fabric that is durable. Should I try to get the lowest number possible? Is super 120 generally considered durable? Can somebody please elaborate on this topic?

Hope to get some reactions,

Mike

Something else to consider other than durability is how various cloths drape and hold a crease with many wearings. I find that the high number Supers in my wardrobe require more touch-up pressing to maintain a neat appearance.

The 90s, and Super 100s look great at day's end. I could never make that claim about my Super 150s!

________________________________

 

[shoefan]

There are any number of factors that influence the quality of wool, and of course certain qualities of a given fabric are subjective. That being said, a few comments (based on my layman's understanding) might be worthwhile.

Wool fabric is (of course) woven from wool yarn made up of numerous individual wool fibers. The individual fibers have both a length and a thickness/diameter. The 'super' numbers refers only to the latter, but the former has a big influence on the wool's durability. One of things that influences a fabric's strength and durability is the length of the wool fibers of which it is comprised -- think about the strength of a 10 foot piece of rope, comprised of 25 10-foot lengths of nylon, vs. a 10 foot piece of rope of the same diameter comprised of hundreds of 1 to 2 foot long, overlapping pieces of nylon; the former would be much stronger -- i.e. the longer the individual fibers, the stonger the rope (or yarn) of a given diameter will be. So, the 'super' number tells you nothing about the length of the fibers, and hence little about the durability of the cloth.

Also, the very fine 'super' fibers are quite expensive, so there is an incentive for the weaver to use as few of them as possible, hence the material may be very thin and delicate; one measure of the number of fibers in a given length of cloth is its weight (as measured in grams or ounces) -- most of the 'super' cloths are quite thin and light-weight; which is stonger and more durable, a tissue or a thick piece of paper? Furthermore, there is the related issue of the 'ply' of the fabric, which refers to whether one or two threads/yarns are used for each direction of the weave (warp and weft). Two ply is considered much better for durability and wrinkle-resistance, but it uses more raw material and hence is more expensive to make. Again, nowhere in a 'super' designation is the ply of the fabric addressed.

Certainly, there are some very nice high-supers cloths, which feature long fibers, a dense weave, and two ply yarns. However, these are very expensive. The use of a generic 'super' designation tells you very little about whether any given fabric would correspond to these features.

As mentioned by others, one good guideline is the weaver or merchant of the cloth (e.g. Holland and Sherry, Lesser, Scabal, etc). However, in RTW clothing only rarely is this disclosed, typically when the cloth is from Loro Piana, Zegna, or (occasionally) Carlo Barbera -- the first 2 of these companies have done a great job of marketing their brands, hence adding perceived value to the manufacturer's finished goods; however, in the realm of the clothing afficianado, I think LP and Zegna fabrics are considered highly variable and generally of mid-grade quality.