Pinning Down the Look

[Percy Blakeney]

I'm a teacher at a somewhat "economically disadvantaged" high school. I'm trying to up my look without alienating co-workers or students. Dress trousers, dress shirt, sports coat, nice shoes. That should be simple, but I'm finding it deceptively difficult for two reasons: first, a firm grasp on color, and harmonizing color in an outfit, eludes me. Second, I'm finding it quite difficult to strike the right balance of business and casual.

I've been making a list of questions, and though I've crossed many off thanks to the search function and Google, I've still got quite a few in hand. Apologies if I'm committing some breach of etiquette by posting them here. I went back and forth between making a new thread and posting them in the "Quick Question" thread... but after typing them out they didn't seem quite so quick anymore.

1) As I said, I'm a teacher. I want to look professional, but not too formal. Any suggestions on how I can strike that balance with the above attire (dress pants, dress shirt, sports coat)? I was thinking that sticking with button-down collar dress shirts, sans tie, might be one way. Perhaps an unstructured sports coat?

2) The coat: Another consideration for the coat is movement. I frequently have to raise my arms over my head to write on the board. Would a sports coat still be wise, or would the structured shoulders be a bit of a nuisance?

3) Modular wardrobe: I was hoping that I'd be able to assemble a wardrobe that was, to a large extent, modular. Two coats, five shirts, three slacks... if they are all complimentary that's thirty outfits. Is this feasible? If so, what colors would best lend themselves to this goal? (If I'm a bit shy of navy blazers, would that be to severe a restriction?)

4) Measurements: If I have my basic measurements, how far can I stray from those when ordering a garment on e-bay or the forum here and still expect something to fit well post-tailor adjustments? Does it just depend on the brand/fabric/article of clothing? How do I know when to size-up or size-down?

5) If I buy RTW, is it feasible to take those items to a tailor to have them adjusted to fit me? E.g., dress shirt/pants from BB?

6) Pants: Flat Front vs. Pleats, largely subjective, right? Flat fronts = no cuffs, pleats = cuffs... correct? Would one or the other be better for the look I'm trying to achieve?

7) Shoes: I'm looking at different types of AEs, but I'm not really sure what would work best for me. A penny-loafer? Which one? I'm thinking a pair of shoes that's a dark burgundy, and another that's a dark brown... is that wise? Should I get a penny-loafer and a different style and, if so, which one? Leather soles or one of the rubber-bottom ones (considering I'm usually on my feet for 8-10 hours or more every day)?

8) Late summer, early fall, and all of spring are typically sweltering here. My building, however, is typically freezing. Should I invest in different materials and, if so, for what garments in particular? Just the jackets? Shirts as well? Slacks? Socks? What kind of fabrics should I seek for the warmer seasons, and what kind for the cooler?


My plan: I've been watching e-bay, lurking in the FS section, and making a list of thrift/vintage stores in my area that I'll start visiting soon. I'll be biting the bullet and driving to a store that sells AEs... just to try them on and figure out my size. Anything missing?

 

[mensimageconsultant]

1) Yes. Also, patterns (mostly for the dress shirts). Cotton pants probably would work better than wool pants.
2) High armholes, more likely to be found on Italian brands.
3) That's a good idea. Navy would help, but it isn't necessary. Shades of gray, shades of brown, some olive. (Obviously there should be white and light blue shirts.) Avoid black. Patterns, again.
4) E-bay and other used is too risky (for most people). For jackets, in person, try on. (Same for shoes, though that's not "garments.") If it's tight in places or very loose in the shoulders or chest, it's probably unwise to buy.
5) Anything not excluded above likely can be tailored to fit well.
6) Pleats/cuffs with a jacket that isn't slim-fitting might make more sense, but it's not a big deal.
7) Laced shoes tend to be more comfortable for extended standing. Many would argue that that's also true of rubber soles. Combination soles might be better, in terms of balancing looks and comfort. (Almost any adult male should always have a leather-soled pair for formal occasions, though.) One pair dark brown and one pair burgundy sounds good, agreed.
8) Don't worry about season-specific shirt fabrics. Cotton or wool or maybe a bamboo blend for socks, weight varying per the weather. Linen blended with cotton for pants can be nice for summer. Jackets that aren't mostly wool might look too casual for the classroom, and then some degree of non-wool won't make a big difference. Lightweight wool for summer. Cashmere with wool for jackets in winter, but pure substantial wool can be enough. Silk-wool blends are okay, but not particularly made for any type of weather.

See (readers) why image consulting exists?

 

[acecow]

1) Also, brighter colors, stripes, gingham. Don't be afraid of patterns. Suggestion for cotton pants is very good. I'm a very casual dresser most of the time, due to my work environment, so I mostly reach for slim-fitting cotton pants. My pants wardrobe consists mostly of Incotex/Mabitex and H&M cotton pants. They provide great value for the money. The downside is that they need more frequent pressing than wool to look crisp. 2) You need slimmer sleeves and tighter armholes. It will be very hard to find in stores or on the net. Usually, those are a mark of bespoke or MTM. I've had some luck with Boglioli and Ermenegildo Zegna jackets. 3) Try gray/black blazers. Those usually find more approval from a younger crowd. Also, I like a bright blue or brown/green, but those are harder to match. Get 1 pair of gray wool trousers and then go wild with different colored cotton pants. I think I have around 30 pairs and I wear them all, albeit not very often. 4) Experience and trial and error.

5) You have to know what to look for in RTW. Remember to check the shoulders and armholes, as those are generally not alterable. Everything else can be fixed for the most part. 6) Cuffs have nothing to do with pleats. In any case, if you are appealing to a younger audience, forget about pleats and cuffs. Stick to simple, clean slim-fitting flat-fronts. 7) AE are generally too bulky, too old-man looking. Score some sleeker shoes from British or Italian makers on B&S here. Don't rush it. 8) If in doubt, always get summer wool. You can layer a sweater underneath in winter. Some tips and pointers: - Invest in MTM shirt-making from the start. You won't want to go back to RTW. - Fit is everything. To look young, you must find well-fitting clothes. - Don't wear a tie in your position, although it's tempting. Wear nice pocket squares instead.

 

[Marcellionheart]

Hi, I'm a teacher and have taught in similar schools.

I tend to wear dressy casual stuff. I wear ties and bow ties, but that's just my personality and the staff and students know that and love/like/appreciate/tolerate it. I usually wear lots of cords, moleskins, chinos, and tweed. I don't go for worsteds since they tend to look too formal and the chalk shows up worse on them than on tweed or cords. For shoes, I primarily wear Indy boots, chukkas, and brogued boots (cause I like them). The head of department dresses almost as formally. He's usually in a cord jacket, dress trousers, no tie. Principal usually wears a suit.

I usually teach with the jacket open.

 

[1969]

I don't wear a sportcoat or tie ever at work. It's out of place at my office and defeats the purpose of not alienating others. Until this last year I've gone the route of casual cotton trousers like Incotex, along with cords, flannels, various patterned shirts and OCBD's. Yes, all that stuff is less formal but it became a pain ********** for me to mix and match texture and color. The more options the worse off you are.

This year I've chucked all that and basically gone to a uniform of conservative business dress lite. Grey wool trousers, with an occasional brown or blue pair; plain front and 2" cuff. Shirts are made to measure using seasonal fabrics from Acorn in white, ecru or light blue, sleeves typically rolled up and a nice stainless steel watch. No button down collars. Shoes are usually cordovan bluchers NST's or captoes-- Alden or C&J. My entire focus now is on quality of fabric, construction and fit. It's a uniform that blends into the environment but doesn't stand out. It's done over and over again (badly) in the workplace but it takes effort to make it look good. People may think "that looks good" but they don't really know why, which is fine with me.

 

[bluesman528]

Originally Posted by Percy Blakeney

1) As I said, I'm a teacher. I want to look professional, but not too formal. Any suggestions on how I can strike that balance with the above attire (dress pants, dress shirt, sports coat)? I was thinking that sticking with button-down collar dress shirts, sans tie, might be one way. Perhaps an unstructured sports coat?
No, I would take a proper sports coat with natural shoulders. Unstructured coats are more like pajamas

, a bit too casual for your intentions.

Originally Posted by Percy Blakeney

2) The coat: Another consideration for the coat is movement. I frequently have to raise my arms over my head to write on the board. Would a sports coat still be wise, or would the structured shoulders be a bit of a nuisance?
High armholes are your friend. And the coat has to fit properly in the shoulder region.

Originally Posted by Percy Blakeney

3) [...] If so, what colors would best lend themselves to this goal? (If I'm a bit shy of navy blazers, would that be to severe a restriction?)
Yes. A sports coat in navy blue is the basic item for building your business casual wardrobe. Mid blue and brown would be further options.

Originally Posted by Percy Blakeney

4) Measurements: If I have my basic measurements, how far can I stray from those when ordering a garment on e-bay or the forum here and still expect something to fit well post-tailor adjustments? Does it just depend on the brand/fabric/article of clothing? How do I know when to size-up or size-down?
You would not know. It's too risky to build your wardrobe on e-bay without knowing anything about the fit of the garments on you (I learned that the hard way by myself). If you already own some suits or coats from a certain renowned brand and you know about the fit of these garments, you are able to take the risk and buy these cuts online. But buying out of thin air will cost you a lot of money for some clothes you will not wear because you won't look well in these.

Originally Posted by Percy Blakeney

5) If I buy RTW, is it feasible to take those items to a tailor to have them adjusted to fit me? E.g., dress shirt/pants from BB?
Yes. But you should buy only clothes which fit so well that the necessary adjustments are minimal. BTW, don't buy a brand because you like the brand name and have heard of them often. Buy only if you like the specific clothes from them because of quality and fit. There's too much branded and expensive crap out there for customers who do not know better.

Originally Posted by Percy Blakeney

6) Pants: Flat Front vs. Pleats, largely subjective, right? Flat fronts = no cuffs, pleats = cuffs... correct? Would one or the other be better for the look I'm trying to achieve?
Flat front is better for slimmer people, pleats are better for the fuller figured.

You can wear cuffs on flat front trousers, but you must wear them on pleated ones (the pleats need the additional weight of the cuffs to drape properly). Unless you are "fully figured" I would take flat front, uncuffed. It's a younger look.

Originally Posted by Percy Blakeney

7) Shoes: I'm looking at different types of AEs, but I'm not really sure what would work best for me. A penny-loafer? Which one? I'm thinking a pair of shoes that's a dark burgundy, and another that's a dark brown... is that wise? Should I get a penny-loafer and a different style and, if so, which one? Leather soles or one of the rubber-bottom ones (considering I'm usually on my feet for 8-10 hours or more every day)?
I would stick to brown and black shoes with laces for being more versatile. Leather soles on a pair of shoes which really fit well and support your feet in the correct way will not hurt you. But they will look much better than any rubber-soled shoes would do. Make sure you get some Goodyear welted shoes made from good calf leather uppers because they can be easier repaired and will be more sustainable. AE offers loads of them. Some of the British producers may be interesting, too, Crockett & Jones, Cheaney, Barker, perhaps the 1880 series from Loake. And avoid any compromises concerning the shoes. The wrong shoes ruin your whole outfit.

Originally Posted by Percy Blakeney

8) Late summer, early fall, and all of spring are typically sweltering here. My building, however, is typically freezing. Should I invest in different materials and, if so, for what garments in particular? Just the jackets? Shirts as well? Slacks? Socks? What kind of fabrics should I seek for the warmer seasons, and what kind for the cooler?
Stick to wool for SCs and slacks, but take cloths with less weight for the summer months, perhaps half-lined coats in the summer as well. If it's really hot, wear just shirt and slacks. But do not buy all at once. Take your time for accumulating a proper wardrobe. Hope this helps a little bit.

 

[Percy Blakeney]

Thank you all for the replies, they have been quite helpful.

I was planning on including a few patterns in my dress shrits, but nothing too flashy; some relatively thin stripes, perhaps light checks. Anything more than that and I feel like I'd either be straying towards the overly-casual or simply stepping outside of my sartorial-comfort-zone. Perhaps in time, but for now I'm still learning the ropes.

An additional complication, albeit one I don't feel compelled to complain about, is my somewhat youthful face. It's not my hairstyle or clothing, either. Not quite a baby-face, I just look younger than my actual age... which puts me in the "young looking" category. Again, too casual attire and I look like an older student, too conservative and I think I may look a tad bit costumed. I think I'm giving a distorted impression of just how concerned I am about this; I'm really not, my main concern being to improve the fit, quality, and coordination of my wardrobe. Your suggestions have been very helpful in that regard.

I'm looking into several MTM shirt sites, but much like several of you mentioned, ordering online is a bit risky. I've seen some good deals pop up, though only after they had ended. I'll keep my eyes peeled for more, though, as it's certainly a consideration. I did notice that Brooks Brothers had some button-down collar shirts on sale, but I wasn't sure how to pick out a fit. Should I try to get a collar that fits well, even if the body/sleeves are too big/too long? How much larger should I aim for to allow for shrinking?

As far as the sportcoat goes, I feel like it might be pushing the formality line a bit, but it's also a matter of function. I'm damn near always cold in the classroom. I'm not adamantly opposed to navy, I realize, so much as the metal buttons. I saw a discussion that suggested horn buttons, which I like, but I need to see more sportcoats like that (paired with a variety of trousers) before I could commit to one.

I have neither the funds, nor the inclination to chase brands. In fact, I've been strongly opposed to clearly labeled clothing since high school. (I took umbrage to paying someone to be their walking advertisement.) However, they can serve as a useful measure and assurance of quality, and by finding certain brands that fall within my means I can dramatically simplify this entire process.

My thanks, again, for all of your help.

 

[mensimageconsultant]

A little more than a finger should fit into a shirt collar. Of course who knows if you can even try it on before buying. Proper washing and drying should not change that or other dimensions much. Unless your measurements are unusual, you should be able to find sized (e.g., 15, 34) dress shirts that have the right sleeve length and collar size. If the body is too long, no big deal, since the shirt is to be tucked. It sounds like measurements need to be taken by a salesperson at, for example, Brooks Brothers.

 

[tacobender]

I'd be curious to know what your total budget is this year, and what you are willing to spend each additional year in replacement or upkeep costs.

My reason for asking is that E-bay can be a waste of money for people who either arn't quite sure of their measurements, don't have access to a great - well trained tailor willing to work cheaply, or in bulk, and can still be dicey as not everyone is honest or uses the same measurements.

 

[VelvetGreen]

As an Englishman, I can only suggest one thing, which is a tweed jacket. Not a dressy Americanised tweed jacket, but a proper salt of the earth humble tweed jacket.

Why? It's teacher garb, endearing, you can wear a tie with it. The kids like the pattern/are entranced by it, remember you by it, and you look more like a gentleman. If you're a young man, you look non-threatening. If you're an older gent, you look accessible.

 

[JohnnyLaw]

Originally Posted by VelvetGreen

As an Englishman, I can only suggest one thing, which is a tweed jacket. Not a dressy Americanised tweed jacket, but a proper salt of the earth humble tweed jacket.

Why? It's teacher garb, endearing, you can wear a tie with it. The kids like the pattern/are entranced by it, remember you by it, and you look more like a gentleman. If you're a young man, you look non-threatening. If you're an older gent, you look accessible.

I can't think of a better excuse to wear tweed.

 

[pvrhye]

If color eludes you, don't worry, because like anything else, it can be studied.

Learn your color wheel and what complimentary and cross complimentary colors are. That should give you a better idea. If all else fails, you should have a basic visual memory of colors. Most design has done the hard work for you. Not sure what looks good with an orangy red? Look at the bottle of tide detergent.

EDIT: 2)

The coat: Another consideration for the coat is movement. I frequently have to raise my arms over my head to write on the board. Would a sports coat still be wise, or would the structured shoulders be a bit of a nuisance?

Sport coats were made for sport. This is exactly what they should be able to do. Mind you, any well fitting coat will let you move. Look for high armholes since they restrict movement less.

 

[Percy Blakeney]

Originally Posted by tacobender

I'd be curious to know what your total budget is this year, and what you are willing to spend each additional year in replacement or upkeep costs.

My reason for asking is that E-bay can be a waste of money for people who either arn't quite sure of their measurements, don't have access to a great - well trained tailor willing to work cheaply, or in bulk, and can still be dicey as not everyone is honest or uses the same measurements.

As bluesman528 suggested, this is going to have to be a gradual process. As I said, I'm a (relatively new, < 5 years) teacher (of humble means). I have not actually sat down to figure out a budget for clothing; instead, I've been gathering resources for deal hunting. Outlet stores, thrift stores, sales or coupons listed online, etc. Since I am not quite sure of my measurements and don't have access to a great tailor I have reluctantly relegated e-bay and other online purchases to the "Only If I Stumble Across An Amazing Deal And I'm Willing To Take A Chance" category.

It is difficult to make a case for improving one's attire when one is not flush. It would be far easier for me to simply continue on as I have been, but the more I learn, the less content I am to do so. It is my hope that I can work towards this goal at a measured pace, as that is the only pace I could hope to reach. I suspect that I might be able to obtain shirts and trousers within my means without too much difficulty, but that jackets and shoes will be the larger expense.

Originally Posted by VelvetGreen

Not a dressy Americanised tweed jacket, but a proper salt of the earth humble tweed jacket.

I'm afraid that I must confess ignorance; I don't know the difference, and quick Google search did little to enlighten me. May I trouble you to enlighten me?

I continue to read; these forums, other forums, and books on the subject of style. I read something quite helpful about color and basic color theory, and I daresay that I have a (tenuous) grasp on the matter. It's a start.

 

[VelvetGreen]

Originally Posted by Percy Blakeney

I'm afraid that I must confess ignorance; I don't know the difference, and quick Google search did little to enlighten me. May I trouble you to enlighten me?


Apologies Percy, my artistic license got the better of me. It's just the stylistic difference between this kind of thing:

and

etc.

 

[tacobender]

It is difficult to make a case for improving one's attire when one is not flush. It would be far easier for me to simply continue on as I have been, but the more I learn, the less content I am to do so. It is my hope that I can work towards this goal at a measured pace, as that is the only pace I could hope to reach. I suspect that I might be able to obtain shirts and trousers within my means without too much difficulty, but that jackets and shoes will be the larger expense.


Can I make a suggestion - find a number you are willing to spend for the remainder of this school year / then for summer to help with the next school years wardrobe.

Jackets and shoes can easily eat up your whole budget. If you have 1000 to spend on next years closet, we can't suggest you get a pair of 600 dollar Crockett and Jones shoes. You are going to have to get 2-3 pair of Cole Haan's. Ideally if you live close to an outlet center you can hit up a brooks brothers outlet and get a good deal on some sport coats or navy blazers.