Ph.D. or PhD on business card

[SGladwell]

Originally Posted by not really

Hundreds of years before PhDs were first conferred, by German Universities, physicians were called 'doctor'.

Then again, everybody is a doctor in Germany and Austria. (Except for Joschka Fischer, at least.) Look at the boards of any company; you'll find that people who if transplanted into America would've probably stopped at the MBA level have the title. Many lawyers have it. And Austrians are even worse than Germans! Even Jörg bloody Haider is a doctor! I've met my fair share of people who went by "Dr. Dr." or even "Dr. Dr. Mag." if they had two doctorates and a master's degree in a different field from either doctorate.

 

[SGladwell]

Originally Posted by Hanseat

If you lecture at university w/o being a professor (and being paid for it, just hoping to become a professor before age 45) you're a PD or (Privatdozent), if you've decided not to go into teaching after all you're Dr. habil. John Doe. The habil. stands for your Habilitation or post-doctoral degree.

At the FU-Berlin, at least, there's also a third title: wissenschaftliche Mitarbeiter. At first I thought that just meant TA, but I later learned that one of my profs who had that title had already completed his doctorate. He did work at a university-affiliated think tank, though, so maybe that's why the different title.

 

[LabelKing]

Originally Posted by SGladwell

Then again, everybody is a doctor in Germany and Austria. (Except for Joschka Fischer, at least.) Look at the boards of any company; you'll find that people who if transplanted into America would've probably stopped at the MBA level have the title. Many lawyers have it. And Austrians are even worse than Germans! Even Jörg bloody Haider is a doctor! I've met my fair share of people who went by "Dr. Dr." or even "Dr. Dr. Mag." if they had two doctorates and a master's degree in a different field from either doctorate.
Don't they repeat titles all the time in the Teutonic nations? This professor of philosophy at the University of Munich has three titles: http://www.philoek.uni-muenchen.de/homann/index.htm I remember seeing those awful Daimler-Chrysler advertisments on television with that CEO and he was of course, a doctor as well.

 

[Violinist]

Originally Posted by mano

How sad that you live a life in which you believe you're only as good as your last performance.

BTW, you do, in fact introduce yourself as a violinist every time you post here.


That is not how I value myself, it is how the music industry, at least in the classical world, evaluates performers. Surely such a cultured, incredibly well educated chap like you should know this? My my, doctor.

 

[mano]

Originally Posted by Violinist

That is not how I value myself, it is how the music industry, at least in the classical world, evaluates performers. Surely such a cultured, incredibly well educated chap like you should know this? My my, doctor.
Please, no need to call me doctor here. Only my clients and immediate family, remember? So, we have an angry, miserable,

defensive (I'm anticipating the "I'm very happy..." reply, but you probably won't say it just to prove me wrong

) violinist

who enjoys passive aggressive antagonism

and fine clothes. Is Beethoven, perhaps a favorite? (except for the clothes; didn't he dress poorly?) Have a good weekend, my oppositional and contrarian friend.

 

[Violinist]

Originally Posted by mano

Please, no need to call me doctor here. Only my clients and immediate family, remember?

So, we have an angry, miserable,

defensive (I'm anticipating the "I'm very happy..." reply, but you probably won't say it just to prove me wrong

) violinist

who enjoys passive aggressive antagonism

and fine clothes.

Is Beethoven, perhaps a favorite? (except for the clothes; didn't he dress poorly?)

Have a good weekend, my oppositional and contrarian friend.

Actually, I'm very happy in my profession. Had I said that all psychologists are pill popping quacks who weren't smart enough to get into medical school, which is equally as ignorant as saying that musicians live sad lives, then I'm sure you'd write something exposing my ignorance. I suppose logic was never part of your training.

 

[LA Guy]

Originally Posted by Hanseat

Not to be too much of a smartass but at least in Germany there's a post-Ph.D degree, which is required to become a Professor. Basically, you write a second doctoral-thesis and have to be published and all that.
If you lecture at university w/o being a professor (and being paid for it, just hoping to become a professor before age 45) you're a PD or (Privatdozent), if you've decided not to go into teaching after all you're Dr. habil. John Doe. The habil. stands for your Habilitation or post-doctoral degree.

This sounds painful. So, apparently, academics are even more masochistic in Germany than in North America. Congratulations

 

[kwiteaboy]

I've never seen such masterful use of the emoticons, mano. Well done.

Originally Posted by Violinist

Had I said that all psychologists are pill popping quacks who weren't smart enough to get into medical school

(Actually, psychology Ph.D. programs are far more selective than medical schools, meaning they're harder to get into, meaning you have to be comparatively smarter to get into them. But, since you were just making a point, that's neither here nor there.)

Carry on!

 

[brimley]

Originally Posted by Hanseat

Not to be too much of a smartass but at least in Germany there's a post-Ph.D degree, which is required to become a Professor. Basically, you write a second doctoral-thesis and have to be published and all that.
If you lecture at university w/o being a professor (and being paid for it, just hoping to become a professor before age 45) you're a PD or (Privatdozent), if you've decided not to go into teaching after all you're Dr. habil. John Doe. The habil. stands for your Habilitation or post-doctoral degree.

My German colleague suggests that what you speak of is more a professional degree than academic. For example, the distinction between Assistant Professor and Professor in the academic world.

To celebrate my Ph.D. my wife and I went to an upscale restaurant. The maitre' D greeted us with, "Welcome Mr. Mano..." and immediately interrupt him pointedly correcting, "It's Dr. Mano." Although the restaurant was only half full, he correctly showed us to the absolute worst table in the joint.

While it's probably not a good idea to show up the maitre' D, some claim that making reservations as doctor leads to improved service at restaurants, airports, etc. Is that any more wrong than wearing a tie on a flight to get better service?

 

[lawyerdad]

Originally Posted by Dakota rube

So, how long will it take me to get my Doctor of Love certification?

****, you just stole my joke.

 

[globetrotter]

I don't know if this is true, but I have heard it from multiple sources - in germany, if you don't call a person by his correct title, when you are aware of his title, it is an offense that is actionable. basically, if you introduce somebody as Mr. smith, and he corrects you and says "that is actually Dr. Smith" and you then do it again, he could, theoretically, sue you.

In some areas, I have seen in mostly in italy and latin america, people take on the tittle "dr" as an honorary thing. I had a distributor once in italy who had "dottore" on his cards, and I always thought that he was an MD - it is actualy pretty common to have doctors sell medical equipment. anyway, he once asked me an incredibly stupid question about anatomy, and I asked him if they hadn't covered that in medical school. he burst out laughing that I thought he was an MD. he said, in his village, the fact that he could read and write lead people to call him doctor, and he just adapted it into his title.

 

[Xenok]

Originally Posted by hopkins_student

It's my understanding that the British still separate physicians who practice medicine from surgeons, not by degree but by title. Physicians practicing medicine are referred to as Dr. Smith, whereas surgeons are referred to as Mr. Smith. I intend to go into surgery and I kind of like that system.

there is actually a historical basis to this.

in the older days, you would go see a physician for your diagnosis which almost always happen to be some bloodletting at that time (todays equivalent would be something along the lines of taking some aspirin/prozac and calling the physician again in the morning).

however, in those days those who did the bloodletting were barbers since they were considered most skilled with the blade. hence the red white and blue sign spinning outside a barber shop. red is for the bloodletting they do, white is for the color of their uniform, and i forget what the blue is for.

so you went to see a "dr. so-and-so" for your diagnosis, but you went to see a "mr. so-and-so" for your surgery. nowadays this tradition still continues, so if you are introduced to someone who you know is in the medical profession but is called "mr. so-and-so", you can safely conclude he is a surgeon (outside the US). this is generally considered an honorific, as ironic as that may sound.

 

[LA Guy]

Originally Posted by nyf

While it's probably not a good idea to show up the maitre' D, some claim that making reservations as doctor leads to improved service at restaurants, airports, etc. Is that any more wrong than wearing a tie on a flight to get better service?

Um, actually, this doesn't really help, at least in my experience and from the anecdotes I've heard from both medical doctors and people in the service industry.

One thing about people in the service industry is that they are treated like crap by just about everyone. And from what I've heard, guys in suits are more likely to come up to the gate desk and demand this and that and be belligerent about it. So a guy coming up in a suit to the desk puts people on the defensive immediately. According to the majority of service people I know, the nicest people are young guys on trips. Not in a group (in which they tend to get lound and belligerent,) but travelling alone or in pairs. They are apparently polite and obliging, and are the most grateful if thrown an upgrade or freebie. Of course, you can only be young for a limited amount of time, so, failing that, being nice and polite is probably the best way to get good service in airports.

The only time I've heard of a doctor getting preferential treatment anywhere is when my brother saved some kid from choking to death in the middle of Pearson. He and his wife were comped first class tickets and apparently (according to my brother) also got a standing ovation for his troubles. I am not sure I believe the standing ovation part.

 

[Concordia]

Originally Posted by globetrotter

In some areas, I have seen in mostly in italy and latin america, people take on the title "dr" as an honorary thing.

My parents had an Italian gardener whose father had worked for my grandfather. Joe (our guy) said that his father routinely called his employers "doctor," whether they were physicians or not. As a kid growing up in America, he just figured that his dad worked for a lot of doctors and never thought twice about it.

He also called my parents "Doctor," but each of them was.

 

[Violinist]

Originally Posted by LA Guy

Um, actually, this doesn't really help, at least in my experience and from the anecdotes I've heard from both medical doctors and people in the service industry.

One thing about people in the service industry is that they are treated like crap by just about everyone. And from what I've heard, guys in suits are more likely to come up to the gate desk and demand this and that and be belligerent about it. So a guy coming up in a suit to the desk puts people on the defensive immediately. According to the majority of service people I know, the nicest people are young guys on trips. Not in a group (in which they tend to get lound and belligerent,) but travelling alone or in pairs. They are apparently polite and obliging, and are the most grateful if thrown an upgrade or freebie. Of course, you can only be young for a limited amount of time, so, failing that, being nice and polite is probably the best way to get good service in airports.

The only time I've heard of a doctor getting preferential treatment anywhere is when my brother saved some kid from choking to death in the middle of Pearson. He and his wife were comped first class tickets and apparently (according to my brother) also got a standing ovation for his troubles. I am not sure I believe the standing ovation part.

Believe the standing ovation part... some time ago when we were in Harrod's (I was really young), some old guy collapsed and the employees were looking for a doctor. My dad revived him or whatever... I have no idea. In any case, all the gawkers started clapping and my dad turned totally red and left the scene as soon as the local EMT outfit arrived and he was sure things were fine.