Oxxford's New Video

[S. Able]

Originally Posted by Mark Seitelman

Agreed.


Would you change anything about the product or how they do business?

 

[TheFoo]

Originally Posted by Orgetorix

This is just a plain old Onwentsia, probably the most common Oxxford model for decades, and I don't think it's boxy.

No, it's certainly not boxy. In fact, it fits better than 98% of what's posted on the forum. The mid-placed, regular-width lapels are wonderful. It seems to me that a lot of SF members write-off Oxxford because they too have drunk the marketing Kool-aid and believe Oxxford can't be as slim-fitting or shapely as its Italian competitors.

 

[Mark Seitelman]

With a nod to Tony the Tailor and his prior response:

Originally Posted by S. Able

If I ran Oxxford:

1.\tI would spend some serious time and some serious money working up two very good, simple patterns. I would focus almost exclusively on the upper quarter of the jacket, namely the shoulders, shoulder line, chest and the sleevehead. One pattern would have a firm, structured shoulder with a bit of slope, while the other would have a very soft, natural shoulder (perhaps classic Brooks-ish).

What is "serious money", and how much "serious time and money" is needed to work-up two patterns? They have a design and pattern making staff.

Oxxford has a library of models based upon almost 100 years of experience. It has the two models that you describe. As a manufacturer it often makes its RTW in strict conformity to the retailer's specifications and special requests. Why restrict itself to two models? If a retailer in Atlanta wanted to order his fall line in the "Gibbons" model, why should Oxxford refuse the order on the basis that it will not make that pattern? If the retailer wanted a Gibbons with modifications, why would Oxxford refuse it?

I understand that some retailers have collaborated with Oxxford in putting together an exclusive model for their stores.

I think that the quest for a standard Oxxford model mostly comes from those buying Oxxford second-hand off eBay and who want to see if a suit bought over the internet will fit. Hence, the questions, such as "what is the Gibbons like?"

* * *

4.\tI would invest some resources in personnel that could really do justice to the MTM program. I am envisioning a MTM program in NYC and Chicago with multiple fittings from a tailor/cutter with significant fitting experience and plenty of inlays to work with. I don’t care if they work from block patterns so long as they drastically improve quality control and the end product.


A visiting tailor coming to the NYC store is unnecessary. Its NYC store's tailor and sales personnel are able to place the order and make necessary adjustments.

I never had a problem with quality control.


* * *

Originally Posted by S. Able

Would you change anything about the product or how they do business?


The product is fine. I have no suggestions as to how they do business with me.

As far as suggestions for "how they should do business", I cannot offer advice. The people at the helm are serious and talented people seeking to do their best.

 

[TheFoo]

^^^ But do you really disagree that there are significant downsides to letting retailers play such a large role in determining the look of Oxxford's suits? Chiefly, it dilutes the cogency of the brand. I don't think I'm alone in finding it extremely difficult to describe--or even sense--what distinguishes Oxxford aesthetically and stylistically. That there are so many cuts and that the brand is presented so differently at different venues makes it hard to picture anything meaningful in my head when I think 'Oxxford'.

Of course, cutting down on the available models and being less flexible with retailer preferences will cut into sales in the short-term. But in the long-term, a strengthened, more focused brand might result in greater demand for the product.

 

[Mark Seitelman]

Originally Posted by mafoofan

^^^ But do you really disagree that there are significant downsides to letting retailers play such a large role in determining the look of Oxxford's suits?


No. This is not unusual unless we're talking about ordering goods from a catalogue, such as office supplies.

A good number of retailers collaborate with Oxxford. A retailer's objective is to put together an appealing collection in conformity with the store's look. This involves not only cloth selection, but model selection and styling. A model may be created for the store.


Chiefly, it dilutes the cogency of the brand. I don't think I'm alone in finding it extremely difficult to describe--or even sense--what distinguishes Oxxford aesthetically and stylistically. That there are so many cuts and that the brand is presented so differently at different venues makes it hard to picture anything meaningful in my head when I think 'Oxxford'.


I don't think so.

A suit carrying the Oxxford label that it is a garment of the highest quality. It will have a classic and substantial look because its "guts" were made the old fashioned way.

A Crittiden carried by Wilkes Bashford will be different than a Gibbons at a retailer in suburban Illinois. But, they are essentially the same animal.


Of course, cutting down on the available models and being less flexible with retailer preferences will cut into sales in the short-term. But in the long-term, a strengthened, more focused brand might result in greater demand for the product.


You don't mess with your retailers.

 

[TonyThe Tailor]

Originally Posted by Mark Seitelman

You don't mess with your retailers.

+1000 !
Most retailers that represent Oxxford know their clientele, what they want and what should sell in their establishment. When you find items on Ebay or in Filene's, etc that are NWT, those are retailer's mistakes and are items that were usually the "wrong model" or the buyer has no direct contact with the actual client (larger dept stores rather than small independents) or had a too large of pencil.

For me, having such a selection of patterns is great. For example, This past week, this is what I have in work from Oxxford: 1 3-piece suit in a B Body for a young (35) plaintiff attorney; 2 Suits in the Onwentsia 3/2 sack model for a retired Congressman; 2 Suits in the A model for a young (30) defense attorney; 5 Suits and 2 Jackets in the Manhattan model for a CEO of a large corporation; 3 Cashmere jackets in the A Body for a young (35) attorney, and 2 suits in the Radcliffe for a older (55) semi-retired mining engineer.

where else can i get this quality with such a diverse cross section of looks?

 

[MBreinin]

A deadstock Oxxford Wilshire model suit in dark charcoal flannel arrived today. My guess is that it is circa 1962-1966 (small lapels, 2/3 roll).

Never worn and absolutely stunning. I can't believe how nicely this suit is made. Really great shoulders too. It is a perfect fit right out of the box. I just need to have the pants worked on a little bit.

It will be featured prominently in my fall and winter wardrobe.

Mike

 

[mullacc]

I'm curious about the opening line of the video: "Oxxford Clothes is the only manufacturer left in the United States that still tailors suits by hand."

Does that statement exclude bespoke tailors like Chris Despos, Leonard Logsdail and others, perhaps because they aren't "manufacturers"?

What about English American Tailoring--how does their process differ from Oxxford's?

It's a beautiful video, but it left me with a ton of questions.

 

[Bull]

Originally Posted by MBreinin

A deadstock Oxxford Wilshire model suit in dark charcoal flannel arrived today. My guess is that it is circa 1962-1966 (small lapels, 2/3 roll).

Never worn and absolutely stunning. I can't believe how nicely this suit is made. Really great shoulders too. It is a perfect fit right out of the box. I just need to have the pants worked on a little bit.

It will be featured prominently in my fall and winter wardrobe.

Mike

WOW. Great find!

 

[voxsartoria]

Originally Posted by MBreinin

A deadstock Oxxford Wilshire model suit in dark charcoal flannel arrived today. My guess is that it is circa 1962-1966 (small lapels, 2/3 roll).

Mike

I have an Oxxford Wilshire made back in the day for Maus & Hoffmann that has exceptionally handsome patch pockets.


- B

 

[CunningSmeagol]

Originally Posted by TonyThe Tailor

+1000 !
Most retailers that represent Oxxford know their clientele, what they want and what should sell in their establishment. When you find items on Ebay or in Filene's, etc that are NWT, those are retailer's mistakes and are items that were usually the "wrong model" or the buyer has no direct contact with the actual client (larger dept stores rather than small independents) or had a too large of pencil.

For me, having such a selection of patterns is great. For example, This past week, this is what I have in work from Oxxford: 1 3-piece suit in a B Body for a young (35) plaintiff attorney; 2 Suits in the Onwentsia 3/2 sack model for a retired Congressman; 2 Suits in the A model for a young (30) defense attorney; 5 Suits and 2 Jackets in the Manhattan model for a CEO of a large corporation; 3 Cashmere jackets in the A Body for a young (35) attorney, and 2 suits in the Radcliffe for a older (55) semi-retired mining engineer.

where else can i get this quality with such a diverse cross section of looks?

How many for Rod?

 

[TonyThe Tailor]

Originally Posted by CunningSmeagol

How many for Rod?

LOL Rod's not a client of mine

 

[Mark Seitelman]

Originally Posted by mullacc

I'm curious about the opening line of the video: "Oxxford Clothes is the only manufacturer left in the United States that still tailors suits by hand."

Does that statement exclude bespoke tailors like Chris Despos, Leonard Logsdail and others, perhaps because they aren't "manufacturers"?

What about English American Tailoring--how does their process differ from Oxxford's?

It's a beautiful video, but it left me with a ton of questions.



The statement excludes bespoke tailors (such as Despos and Logsdail) who essentially are small workshops. These top bespoke tailors offer the same or greater level of labor as Oxxford. Others do not.

Oxxford is the only manufacturer which pretty much hand sews its garments. I believe that it is only one in the world which hand sews the collar and lapels. It is definitely the only one left in the US.

English American essentially produces a machine made suit with some hand elements. It's a good suit, but not on the same level as Oxxford. I would analogize EA's top of the line as a Ford Crown Victoria.

It all boils down to the level of labor and care that goes into the product.

 

[TheFoo]

Originally Posted by Mark Seitelman

The statement excludes bespoke tailors (such as Despos and Logsdail) who essentially are small workshops. These top bespoke tailors offer the same or greater level of labor as Oxxford. Others do not.

Oxxford is the only manufacturer which pretty much hand sews its garments. I believe that it is only one in the world which hand sews the collar and lapels. It is definitely the only one left in the US.

English American essentially produces a machine made suit with some hand elements. It's a good suit, but not on the same level as Oxxford. I would analogize EA's top of the line as a Ford Crown Victoria.

It all boils down to the level of labor and care that goes into the product.

Mark, are paper patterns drawn up for all MTM customers, or are they only done upon specific request for 'bespoke' service?

 

[jefferyd]

Originally Posted by Mark Seitelman

I believe that it is only one in the world which hand sews the collar and lapels.

I believe as much, as well.