Official Umbrella aficionados thread

[Crazy Canuck]

Now, lastly everyone keep mentioning Maglia and Talarico as the end all be all of Italian craftmanship, were one might be stronger in the wooden shaft while the other in attention to details and canopy. Clearly no real winner, or I could be mistaken. I came across last week a NYC website selling a ridiculously low priced handmade Italian umbrella by Il Marchesato for $65 USD plus shipping. It sat me back about 80 GPB. Again clearly something was off. On the artisan website the same one sales for 239 euro (200 GBP). Now, I haven't received it yet and clearly for the price, I surely hope I will not be disappointed. The moral of the stories here is sometimes, you can find a great umbrella at a fraction of the cost. Are those ribs made in with Chinese steel? Maybe, maybe not, Doppler have been making umbrellas since 1946 while Marchesato since 1978, not as long as others but let's be honest here, it an umbrella not a car, the technology involved here is not out of this world to pass on... As soon as I received my Marchesato, I will post comments and picture. As anyone had any experience with this maker?

Today I received my Il Marchesato umbrella purchased from Viola Umbrella in NYC. Taking into consideration the price I paid, I am very happy with the product. Since I have never seen a Maglia nor Talirico, I can’t compare it to them. I can only compare it to the Doppler, I have reviewed in my previous post. To be honest, if Doppler was a Benz, this is a Toyota. The overall feel is nowhere near the Doppler. The weight is substantially lighter, 17.5 oz. vs 27.3 oz. for the Doppler. This alone tells the whole story on quality of material. The shaft feels cheap and light while the whangee handle is correct. This is 8 ribs vs 10 and the canopy is much lighter, it is a blend of 60% nylon and 40% polyester. There is a subtle pattern which makes it look very classy. Upon inspecting it, I can see there are some issues on the fit and finish. There is some glue apparent near the rosette on the outside near the tip, not a whole lot but some. What appear to be a metal tip (vs horn) has a little bit of wiggle. No nail has been used to secure the tip as opposed to Doppler which is rock solid and secured with a nail. The band on the handle is also secured by nails but for some reason, there is an indentation on the handle where the band is fixed which may have caused issues when it was fixed with a hammer, there is a bent in the plate. Now for most people, these would have passed unnoticed, but all these adds up and make me feel that, have I paid the full price on the website plus shipping an conversion rate, I would doubt that I would feel I had the full value of the asking price.

 

[logboy]

The only maker that can satisfy you IMO is Michel Heurtault. He was transparent from the beginning with prompt replies. Ribs are from Japan, made in 1970s. Silk from France, wood from France, and horn sourced in Europe. But it seems like you've burned bridges with Heurtault. I asked about shipping with outmost care, noting I've heard of your case. This is what he had to say: View attachment 1713437

would be interested to hear of you got your heurtault and if it’s any good, was packaged well - with a description of how it was carried out. Would be able to compare it to my memories of the poor job they did with mine.

there is a chance (of course) you mentioning hearing my story will have altered how they handled yours. However, it didn’t effect their attitude to me as they didn’t give any insight into corrections to their shipping practices when I considered trying again, and indicated a lack of concern that baffles me still. It would have been possible to approach that issue without mentioning me, but I suspect their attitude is perhaps long set before I made my order two years ago. it still annoys me that mine was badly packaged, and frustrates me they didn’t know how to handle it or be as bothered about putting it right as they were about continuing to get things wrong or failing to think about improvements.

at those prices I expect a lot, and I expected they’d offer a lot more. I hope everyone who orders a superb heirtault umbrella gets a better experience.

 

[RSS]

Today I received my Il Marchesato umbrella purchased from Viola Umbrella in NYC. Taking into consideration the price I paid, I am very happy with the product.

Even if it isn't as fine as some better umbrellas, I think I'll order one and give it a try. I rather like some of their colorways.

 

[Son Of Saphir]

Anyone know about the OERTEL HANDMADE Golf umbrella?

Oertel Handmade - Sport uni - Golf Umbrella - blue RH

elegant yet timeless colours

www.european-umbrellas.com

 

[ceriano]

How long do these solid shaft umbrellas last? Can they be repaired or they are pretty much disposable?

 

[magulv]

Hi guys! I'm about to place an order for a SAB Thomas Brigg stripped cherry solid stick umbrella. I've narrowed it down to Navy Blue or midnight blue canopy. The problem beeing that they don't have any pictures of the midnight blue fabric. I've emailed back and forth with Swaine for a couple of days now, they can't seem to produce a singel image of the fabric. Regardless of model, or even in loose fabric, they are apparently unable to provide a picture for me. I'm not about to spend over 400 pounds on an umbrella, without having seen the color in advance.

So, does any of you have a SAB umbrella with midnight blue canopy? Or a picture of such? (Yes, I've tried googling, but no luck). Or have seen it in person? Or have seen the midnight blue together with the navy blue, and can speak of the difference?

Thanks guys for any help!

 

[logboy]

I'm not about to spend over 400 pounds on an umbrella, without having seen the color in advance.

i’d be more concerned that you won’t know (or be able to find out) where their metal frames are from.

i’ve spent more than a few days trying to find that out. several years or more in fact. they won’t say. it could be … more problematic than the shade of colour.

£400 for an umbrella that’s structurally not certain to be better than a £4 one, is not happening.

until they can say, and realise it’s a benefit to be open and honest, i won’t be buying one.

 

[magulv]

i’d be more concerned that you won’t know (or be able to find out) where their metal frames are from.

i’ve spent more than a few days trying to find that out. several years or more in fact. they won’t say. it could be … more problematic than the shade of colour.

£400 for an umbrella that’s structurally not certain to be better than a £4 one, is not happening.

until they can say, and realise it’s a benefit to be open and honest, i won’t be buying one.

Well, my research tells me they get their frames from Fox. So, Fox and SAB use the same steel frame. Read that in a couple of articles. Haven't asked them directly, though.

 

[logboy]

Well, my research tells me they get their frames from Fox. So, Fox and SAB use the same steel frame. Read that in a couple of articles. Haven't asked them directly, though.

afaik, no steel frames made in the UK for 20+ years. some makers use NOS italian or french frames. most just won’t say. they’ve maintained their prices, but not necessarily qualities.

best i’ve seen are heurtault, but terrible customer service and packaging in my experience.

 

[magulv]

afaik, no steel frames made in the UK for 20+ years. some makers use NOS italian or french frames. most just won’t say. they’ve maintained their prices, but not necessarily qualities.

best i’ve seen are heurtault, but terrible customer service and packaging in my experience.

Just for the fun of it, I asked Fox. Like you said, they won't disclose the origin of the frame parts. Wich annoys me. What does that tell you, when they're open about the place of origin of the wood and fabric, but won't disclose the origin of the steel..? I guess it's not England. Wich makes the "Made in England" stamp on their product pages sound a bit hollow. Assembled in England, yes. Made in England? I guess not. It's kind of like watches and the "Swiss Made" stamp..

Ad i wrote to them: "I just don't understand why you're so against transparency of the origin. If you said China, I would still buy it. Chinese quality is not what it used to be, and you can find really high quality products there. But unknown origin, due to the assemblers reluctance to disclose the information, makes one onder what's wrong."

I'll post here if I get a reply.

 

[logboy]

Just for the fun of it, I asked Fox. Like you said, they won't disclose the origin of the frame parts. Wich annoys me. What does that tell you, when they're open about the place of origin of the wood and fabric, but won't disclose the origin of the steel..?

i think it should be a major selling point. to not disclose it, seems contradictory to the 'made in england' claim. they could be NOS english steel frames, and they'd not necessarily be naming a source still available to anyone else. all makers should be pointing this issue out, and some do : heurtault states openly that some are NOS japanese parasol frames, some are italian or french. for what it's worth, i wouldn't accept chinese frames.

i had two new (unused) maglia, and when francesco senior retired, an interview with the younger francesco said they'd been using chinese frames since the early nineties. i didn't use them, and sold them as a result. they use the term 'assembled in italy'. nope, not good enough. the name, reputation and price should not be ways of covering for a product that might seem corrupted in it's qualities.

 

[magulv]

i think it should be a major selling point. to not disclose it, seems contradictory to the 'made in england' claim. they could be NOS english steel frames, and they'd not necessarily be naming a source still available to anyone else. all makers should be pointing this issue out, and some do : heurtault states openly that some are NOS japanese parasol frames, some are italian or french. for what it's worth, i wouldn't accept chinese frames.

Fox's reply:
I won’t be drawn into a drawn out debate, but clearly the umbrellas are made in the UK as you can see from the videos. We have been making umbrellas here since 1868. Where the raw materials come from changes depending on where we can source the best components. I personally believe we make the best umbrellas in the world and I have no need to start listing each raw component which could give rivals an edge in a very small cottage industry (when it comes to hand made umbrellas). In fact umbrella making in the UK is listed as an endangered craft.

Of course you are welcome to your own opinion, so thank you for your feedback, have a great day.

Paul"

I kind of get his point. Even though I agree that the price should reflect this. I do not know nesrly enough about this, but I guess back in the day they MADE their own frames, using Sheffield steel or something. When the raw material starts coming from elsewhere, AND the steel are formed into the specific parts elsewhere, that would probably save them a lot of money. Even though the biggest piece of the cost probably is the manual labour used to make the stick, the canopy and assembling the whole thing together, I still believe the reduced cost of the raw material and shaping of the steel parts, should benefit the consumer.

 

[logboy]

I kind of get his point. Even though I agree that the price should reflect this. I do not know nesrly enough about this, but I guess back in the day they MADE their own frames, using Sheffield steel or something. When the raw material starts coming from elsewhere, AND the steel are formed into the specific parts elsewhere, that would probably save them a lot of money. Even though the biggest piece of the cost probably is the manual labour used to make the stick, the canopy and assembling the whole thing together, I still believe the reduced cost of the raw material and shaping of the steel parts, should benefit the consumer.

i think ive asked fox in the past, and found them dismissive. i don't personally see how they can be giving away a competitive edge to others if this is a reliable source or if it's switched around - the opportunity is either solid and can supply everyone, or it's temporary and you are lucky to get them. primarily, if some can tell you where frames come from (talarico would be another; they're italian frames still apparently) like heurtault do, then it doesn't stack up for others to be cagey. it's disconcerting if not off-putting entirely.

if anything, a dying industry would be supporting one another. as for labour costs, that would be a factor in all UK umbrellas that are £400 or so, and the central difference - i am unsure to what extent human labour can be cut out of making umbrellas in china, for example ... can machines do it all?! i personally wouldn't allow the lack of transparency to give me confidence in paying out for something that needs every selling point it can get, and shouldn't be diminishing the 'made in england' facet for the sake of survival, if parts are coming from places that don't have a reputation or status worth paying a very high price for.

i love umbrellas, but the makers that are still in existence are a mess when it comes to justifying their prices, and not up to scratch in convincing customers they're getting what they're paying for.

 

[blueberry7]

I know I've mentioned it before, but Kirchtag is very transparent regarding the origin of the parts they use for making their umbrellas:

Regenschirme

Schirmmacherei Kirchtag – handgefertigte Regenschirme aus einem österreichischem Handwerksbetrieb

www.kirchtag.com

Site is still German only, but Google translate should do the trick.
Communication in English via email or phone call is no issue.
For the record: I got mine shipped by post and had no issue with any scratches or damages.

 

[magulv]

So, does any of you have a SAB umbrella with midnight blue canopy? Or a picture of such? (Yes, I've tried googling, but no luck). Or have seen it in person? Or have seen the midnight blue together with the navy blue, and can speak of the difference?

Thanks guys for any help!

Bumping my original question. Can anyone help?