MLB 2009 - 2010 Season Thread

[brokencycle]

Do the Brewers trade Cory Hart or Prince Fielder this year? I'm going with yes because Mark Attanasio wants to cheap out and Doug Melvin will think they can get sweet prospects that will help them compete next year, and they'll finish sub 500.

 

[ConcernedParent]

^^ Please trade him to the Angels for Brandon Wood.

 

[MetroStyles]

Originally Posted by Slopho

I called the fact that they were garbage last year. I even said they need to trade everybody not named David Wright. Yes, that includes Jose Reyes.

EDIT: Of most of the posters on this forum, I think I'd make the best true life GM.

I do not think you would (don't take that personally). First of all, last year was caused by an apocalyptic list of injuries to key players. It cannot be viewed as an accurate data point.

Second of all, the fact that you think a major league team "should trade everybody" except one player on the team is very telling about how good you would be as a real-life GM.

I'm not saying I am a baseball genius, but you are a little bit on the radical side. You need continuity to win in baseball, not a wholesale revamping of the clubhouse. Especially for a team that has a decent core in Reyes, Wright, Beltran, Pagan and (to be fair newcomers this season) Davis and Bay.

 

[Slopho]

Originally Posted by MetroStyles

I do not think you would (don't take that personally). First of all, last year was caused by an apocalyptic list of injuries to key players. It cannot be viewed as an accurate data point.

Second of all, the fact that you think a major league team "should trade everybody" except one player on the team is very telling about how good you would be as a real-life GM.

I'm not saying I am a baseball genius, but you are a little bit on the radical side. You need continuity to win in baseball, not a wholesale revamping of the clubhouse. Especially for a team that has a decent core in Reyes, Wright, Beltran, Pagan and (to be fair newcomers this season) Davis and Bay.

1. What's the problem this year with the Mets? We both know they won't win the Division with this roster let alone the WS.

2. I didn't mean literally. I mean you have to get rid of the most of the high priced talent including Beltran, Reyes, Santana, F-Rod & Perez. You have to blow this team up, just like the White Sox did in the 90's at the trade deadline. Everyone thought they were nuts and were mailing it in, they were, but they knew they couldn't win with that team so they got rid of a ton of guys. Who's won a WS more recently, the Sox or the Mets?

 

[MetroStyles]

I just don't get your points. Okay, tell me this:

1) Why would you trade Santana? He has been great and he brings his A-Game every night. He is the only consistent pitcher on the Mets except for R.A. Dickey.
2) Who would you get back for Perez? He is garbage.
3) Why would you trade Reyes? The key here is Reyes is still CHEAP because he signed a vastly undervalued extension a few years ago (along with Wright). If he was getting $17MM a year I could see it, but he isn't. He's not even making 8 figures.

The better question is - what is the issue with this team's offense, which has been the weak point all season? Well, they need help at 2B and C. 2B is a black hole, and they have been sticking with Barajas at C just because of his hot start. He has been utter garbage since then though. Now that he is on the DL, Josh Thole the rookie will be able to get more playing time. Is the the long-term solution? Well he isn't bad for a catcher. He isn't McCann but most catchers aren't.

In the outfield, Pagan has been amazing. Beltran has not been bad since getting back and I trust he will pick it up again. You might be able to trade Beltran for some younger players, but I don't know what's out there. He is too valuable to give up if you do not get the right deal. He is not a must-sell, is what I am saying.

Francoeur sucks, but he won't get you much back in return. Besides, with Pagan in there Francoeur is relegated to the bench anyway. Bay has sucked, but you cannot trade him. You would never get good value back with the year he has had. You have to hope he is having a Beltran-esque first season in NY and he will revert to the historical mean next year. That, or Citi Field is just not right for him, in which case hope he picks it up on the road next year, sell the **** out of his road stats to other teams, and trade him for prospects. But I just don't see them getting equal value back for him unless he picks it up next season.

So I'd much rather plug holes (2B, C, bench) and pick up an ace and a end-of-the-rotation guy in the offseason than do a wholesale makeover for the club.

 

[Slopho]

Originally Posted by MetroStyles

I just don't get your points. Okay, tell me this:

1) Why would you trade Santana? He has been great and he brings his A-Game every night. He is the only consistent pitcher on the Mets except for R.A. Dickey.
2) Who would you get back for Perez? He is garbage.
3) Why would you trade Reyes? The key here is Reyes is still CHEAP because he signed a vastly undervalued extension a few years ago (along with Wright). If he was getting $17MM a year I could see it, but he isn't. He's not even making 8 figures.

The better question is - what is the issue with this team's offense, which has been the weak point all season? Well, they need help at 2B and C. 2B is a black hole, and they have been sticking with Barajas at C just because of his hot start. He has been utter garbage since then though. Now that he is on the DL, Josh Thole the rookie will be able to get more playing time. Is the the long-term solution? Well he isn't bad for a catcher. He isn't McCann but most catchers aren't.

In the outfield, Pagan has been amazing. Beltran has not been bad since getting back and I trust he will pick it up again. You might be able to trade Beltran for some younger players, but I don't know what's out there. He is too valuable to give up if you do not get the right deal. He is not a must-sell, is what I am saying.

Francoeur sucks, but he won't get you much back in return. Besides, with Pagan in there Francoeur is relegated to the bench anyway. Bay has sucked, but you cannot trade him. You would never get good value back with the year he has had. You have to hope he is having a Beltran-esque first season in NY and he will revert to the historical mean next year. That, or Citi Field is just not right for him, in which case hope he picks it up on the road next year, sell the **** out of his road stats to other teams, and trade him for prospects. But I just don't see them getting equal value back for him unless he picks it up next season.

So I'd much rather plug holes (2B, C, bench) and pick up an ace and a end-of-the-rotation guy in the offseason than do a wholesale makeover for the club.

1. This is why I would trade him. You have to give up something to get something. You will not win with Santana, he's great, but you need more than two pitchers in the NL. The days of raiding a team's farm system for prospects is over (Sorry Slim). That was evident when the Jays were shopping Halladay and ended up not dealing him because they wanted a Bedard-like deal.

2. Dealing away guys like Perez you can't look for the tangible "value", you're trading away a mindset. The mindset of what should be a young team that doesn't have to worry about Perez taking the mound and the team being down 6-0 in the 2nd inning. You don't really need to always "get someone" for someone.

3. I trade Reyes because his upside is still huge. He can leg out triples and when healthy has a good OBP. Here's someone you could actually get 2 guys ready to help at the ML level and a guy at AA. I don't mind trading one guy who make no money for 3 guys who make no money.

More than an offensive minded catcher, they just need someone who can handle a young staff. There are always good guys floating around remember Jorge Cantu, I bet the Mets wish they had this guy or even Dan Uggla. 2nd basemen grow on trees.

 

[MetroStyles]

Originally Posted by Slopho

1. This is why I would trade him. You have to give up something to get something. You will not win with Santana, he's great, but you need more than two pitchers in the NL. The days of raiding a team's farm system for prospects is over (Sorry Slim). That was evident when the Jays were shopping Halladay and ended up not dealing him because they wanted a Bedard-like deal.

2. Dealing away guys like Perez you can't look for the tangible "value", you're trading away a mindset. The mindset of what should be a young team that doesn't have to worry about Perez taking the mound and the team being down 6-0 in the 2nd inning. You don't really need to always "get someone" for someone.

3. I trade Reyes because his upside is still huge. He can leg out triples and when healthy has a good OBP. Here's someone you could actually get 2 guys ready to help at the ML level and a guy at AA. I don't mind trading one guy who make no money for 3 guys who make no money.

More than an offensive minded catcher, they just need someone who can handle a young staff. There are always good guys floating around remember Jorge Cantu, I bet the Mets wish they had this guy or even Dan Uggla. 2nd basemen grow on trees.

1. I know what you mean but I don't see how sending away a top ace helps you fill your pitching gap. I can see trading a good OF for a starting pitcher "because you need more than 2 pitchers to win", but not your ace. Let's be honest, you are not going to get two future aces in any deal for Santana, unless you win the jackpot. The Mets have money. They should spend it on FAs.

2. Well yeah. I would just cut him.

3. Reyes is debatable. I wouldn't trade him because when he goes, the Mets go. He is a great player. But if you could get two major league players who actually fill gaps, then maybe you do it.

That said though, I have a whole issue with running a team like a group of mercenaries. I'm taking off my GM cap and putting on my fan cap here. I don't want to root for a team full of free agents. You need to hold on to your home-grown talent. It means more to me as a fan. If you could win by spending $400MM on free agents, I wouldn't be happy about it. It would be a meaningless championship.

Sports is not just a business. It is for the ones who work for the league and teams. But not for the fans. If it was, there would be no fans. The whole idea is emotionally supporting your guys, and if those guys change year in and year out, I want no part of it. I grew up with my Mets icons, and I have this generation of homegrown players (Wright, Reyes, Pelfrey, Davis). If someone said trade Reyes and Wright for A-Rod and Jeter and win a championship (that's not realistic, but imagine it was), I would not want that as a fan. It's not all about the championships. It's about the way you get them.

Just my .02. Obviously this mindset changes as a GM, but it still remains in the back of mind. You cannot alienate your fan base by trading away fan favorites.

 

[Slopho]

Originally Posted by MetroStyles

1. I know what you mean but I don't see how sending away a top ace helps you fill your pitching gap. I can see trading a good OF for a starting pitcher "because you need more than 2 pitchers to win", but not your ace. Let's be honest, you are not going to get two future aces in any deal for Santana, unless you win the jackpot. The Mets have money. They should spend it on FAs.

2. Well yeah. I would just cut him.

3. Reyes is debatable. I wouldn't trade him because when he goes, the Mets go. He is a great player. But if you could get two major league players who actually fill gaps, then maybe you do it.

That said though, I have a whole issue with running a team like a group of mercenaries. I'm taking off my GM cap and putting on my fan cap here. I don't want to root for a team full of free agents. You need to hold on to your home-grown talent. It means more to me as a fan. If you could win by spending $400MM on free agents, I wouldn't be happy about it. It would be a meaningless championship.

Sports is not just a business. It is for the ones who work for the league and teams. But not for the fans. If it was, there would be no fans. The whole idea is emotionally supporting your guys, and if those guys change year in and year out, I want no part of it. I grew up with my Mets icons, and I have this generation of homegrown players (Wright, Reyes, Pelfrey, Davis). If someone said trade Reyes and Wright for A-Rod and Jeter and win a championship (that's not realistic, but imagine it was), I would not want that as a fan. It's not all about the championships. It's about the way you get them.

Just my .02. Obviously this mindset changes as a GM, but it still remains in the back of mind. You cannot alienate your fan base by trading away fan favorites.

The team that got me in to baseball to begin with was the 1996 Baltimore O's, a team of complete mercs, and I loved them. Alomar, Bonilla, Mercker, Murray, Polonia, Inkky. They use to say that the team would arrive in 27 different limos. This team was built to win, they didn't, but they were fun to watch and kept the fans happy. Let's be honest, you want a team that will win. There is a way to have a healthy balance of FA's and farm grown talent. The Yankees in the mid 90's had home grown guys (Williams, Jeter, Posada, & Soriano) and some good FA (Boggs, O'Neill, Tino)

1. You're right, you probably won't get 2 future aces for Santana. But you could get a really good catcher to help mentor a young staff and a quality number 2 guy.

2. Why cut off your nose to spite your face, he's got some value, a few years ago the O's sent an over the hill Juan Guzman to the Reds for a good prospect named B.J. Ryan.

...and what if Wright and Reyes don't like the manager, or the direction the team is going. They leave via free agency and you've got draft picks. A bird in the hand. I think as a fan your assigning a level of loyalty that may not be there on the part of the players.

 

[sunror]

no mets fan should have an issue with trading reyes, he isn't a 'great player'

i wouldn't trade santana either. yankees made a mistake not shipping prospects for him a couple of years ago - now we have a big chunk of the money tied up in burnett, who is barely above average career, and imploding worse now

 

[MetroStyles]

Originally Posted by sunror

no mets fan should have an issue with trading reyes, he isn't a 'great player'

I have an issue with it. Does this mean I am not a Mets fan? Or perhaps I am marsupialed?

 

[sunror]

no...

but reyes isnt such a big deal that he shouldn't be traded to improve the team, greater value can be had for him. it's different with santana

 

[MetroStyles]

Originally Posted by sunror

no...

but reyes isnt such a big deal that he shouldn't be traded to improve the team, greater value can be had for him. it's different with santana

You may be right, but like I said above, I prefer to hold on to Reyes and Wright and the home-growns. The Mets can afford to.

Call me crazy, but baseball is an emotional sport for me. I have ties to my favorite players. Trade Bay, trade Beltran, trade whoever, but not the home-grown guys. If it just becomes a team of mercenaries, then what exactly is the point of being a fan? Serious question...why not just go ahead and suck the team owner's dick?

 

[sunror]

well i think that previous poster advocated rebuilding, which would mean acquiring minor league players, who aren't really 'mercenaries'

if the mets do reboot santana might be a better trade option than due to his age, he's not young enough for a four or five year plan. i dont their roster needs to be blown up though, it's just suffered from inane gm decisions like allocating over a 100 mil plus to closers in recent years, i think they had three on the roster last season

 

[ConcernedParent]

Originally Posted by MetroStyles

You may be right, but like I said above, I prefer to hold on to Reyes and Wright and the home-growns. The Mets can afford to.

Call me crazy, but baseball is an emotional sport for me. I have ties to my favorite players. Trade Bay, trade Beltran, trade whoever, but not the home-grown guys. If it just becomes a team of mercenaries, then what exactly is the point of being a fan? Serious question...why not just go ahead and suck the team owner's dick?

Looks like most of America doesn't share your sentimentality.... Why would anyone be a fan of the yankees? 2/3rds of that team are FA's.

 

[sunror]

Originally Posted by Slopho

The team that got me in to baseball to begin with was the 1996 Baltimore O's, a team of complete mercs, and I loved them. Alomar, Bonilla, Mercker, Murray, Polonia, Inkky. They use to say that the team would arrive in 27 different limos. This team was built to win, they didn't, but they were fun to watch and kept the fans happy. Let's be honest, you want a team that will win. There is a way to have a healthy balance of FA's and farm grown talent. The Yankees in the mid 90's had home grown guys (Williams, Jeter, Posada, & Soriano) and some good FA (Boggs, O'Neill, Tino)

depends who's on the team when you become a fan, i still like danny tartabull but i dont care about jason giambi