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Do you recall the retail of the SS JLC? I'm at the office and I don't have my price guide handy. But, yes normally SS Reverso's are great values, especially since the square / rectangular watch market is rather small in the grand scheme of things, and choice is limited to say the least.ImageWIS,
Would you agree, that for the money, there are few better finished movements and cases than a basic SS JLC Reverso?
Yes, enegineering, fine, but BMWs and Porsches are finshed in cheap plastics and appauling printed wood vynl, whereas Mercedes are not.Mercedes better than Rolls Royce or Bentley? ÂMercedes are so overpriced, it's not even funny. I love German cars, but Mercedes... You would have to pay $400,000 to get the same quality and engineering beauty from a Mercedes that you could get from a $70,000 Porsche or BMW.
Why you constantly try to prove that I am not myself bemuses greatly now, the point of annoyance has worn off."I may also bring to your note, that Lakshmi Mittal does know of more expensive watches than a Patek."
You always refer to yourself in the third person? (Well, of course Lakshmi Mittal knows there are more expensive watches than Patek, unfortunately you do not).
"Although, as you, the watch expert that you are should indeed realize, the most expensive production watch is, wait for it, a Patek."
Ah, NO. The most expensive "˜production' watch ever made (new) was by Vacheron Constantin, the Kallista. The watch was retailed and sold for $5,000,000, over 130 karats of flawless emerald cut diamonds all with certification. The most expensive watch (wristwatch) retailed right now is the Blancpain 1735 Grande Complication, Platinum case on Platinum bracelet, diamond encrusted on both the case and bracelet, it retails at well over $1,000,000, much higher than Patek's ref. 5002 Sky Moon Tourbillon.
"Money is very much part of the equation, the Cartier and the Patek shown are at similar price points, with a difference of only about five thousand pounds. I am glad to see that you have said that we are not talking about monetary value of timepieces, even though I brought about the subject, it is so nice to see that you are telling me what I am talking about."
Money is not part of the equation regarding quality; one watch is better than the other because of certain mechanical and finishing aspects. The costs of one watch compared to the other does not quality make. Why are you always fretting about money? I mean, if you spend more money or less money, "˜you' of all people would be the last person in the world to fret. I mean, a $60 million wedding is just another check to write, but a Patek requires serious thought? Â
"I did realise that the Patek had a better movement, but it looks bad, who cares what it is like inside, that's like saying you would drive a Toyota instead of a Mercedes/Bentley/Ferrari because the Toyota can go faster, and has an engine which is better made. It does not matter that the Toyota looks terrible to you does it? It does not matter that people will still think you are driving a Toyota does it? The point of such products is to get the reaction from others."
Apparently horology is lost on you, but I'll let you in on a little secret: it's the movement that makes the watch. Why else do you think these companies charge so much for watches with complications? Again, the aesthetic appreciation of the watch is in the eye of the beholder, is this such a difficult concept to grasp? YOU buy products to get reactions from others? HAHAHAHA. Oh, man...I can't believe you think that is how a billionaire speaks, because you are so far off the marker, it is not funny. I, am nowhere in that league, but when I buy any product, either a $30k watch, or a $50 pair of jeans at the GAP, I buy them only for me. Such insecurity is not the writing of someone at that level of global altitude.
"Ernest thinks that Jaeger Le-Couture is better than Cartier, enough said in terms of a more money buys a better product ideology."
And he is right. JLC is better finished, both inside and outside, plus the movements are ten times better (of course you posted a picture of a watch with a quartz movement, so you might not appreciate the situation). Interestingly enough there was a period of time when JLC made watches for Cartier, and they were essentially JLC's with Cartier written on the dial.
By the way, it's not an argument it is a discussion.
Jon.
(imageWIS @ 15 July 2004, 6:10) "I may also bring to your note, that Lakshmi Mittal does know of more expensive watches than a Patek." You always refer to yourself in the third person? (Well, of course Lakshmi Mittal knows there are more expensive watches than Patek, unfortunately you do not). "Although, as you, the watch expert that you are should indeed realize, the most expensive production watch is, wait for it, a Patek." Ah, NO. The most expensive "˜production' watch ever made (new) was by Vacheron Constantin, the Kallista. The watch was retailed and sold for $5,000,000, over 130 karats of flawless emerald cut diamonds all with certification. The most expensive watch (wristwatch) retailed right now is the Blancpain 1735 Grande Complication, Platinum case on Platinum bracelet, diamond encrusted on both the case and bracelet, it retails at well over $1,000,000, much higher than Patek's ref. 5002 Sky Moon Tourbillon. "Money is very much part of the equation, the Cartier and the Patek shown are at similar price points, with a difference of only about five thousand pounds. I am glad to see that you have said that we are not talking about monetary value of timepieces, even though I brought about the subject, it is so nice to see that you are telling me what I am talking about." Money is not part of the equation regarding quality; one watch is better than the other because of certain mechanical and finishing aspects. The costs of one watch compared to the other does not quality make. Why are you always fretting about money? I mean, if you spend more money or less money, "˜you' of all people would be the last person in the world to fret. I mean, a $60 million wedding is just another check to write, but a Patek requires serious thought? "I did realise that the Patek had a better movement, but it looks bad, who cares what it is like inside, that's like saying you would drive a Toyota instead of a Mercedes/Bentley/Ferrari because the Toyota can go faster, and has an engine which is better made. It does not matter that the Toyota looks terrible to you does it? It does not matter that people will still think you are driving a Toyota does it? The point of such products is to get the reaction from others." Apparently horology is lost on you, but I'll let you in on a little secret: it's the movement that makes the watch. Why else do you think these companies charge so much for watches with complications? Again, the aesthetic appreciation of the watch is in the eye of the beholder, is this such a difficult concept to grasp? YOU buy products to get reactions from others? HAHAHAHA. Oh, man...I can't believe you think that is how a billionaire speaks, because you are so far off the marker, it is not funny. I, am nowhere in that league, but when I buy any product, either a $30k watch, or a $50 pair of jeans at the GAP, I buy them only for me. Such insecurity is not the writing of someone at that level of global altitude. "Ernest thinks that Jaeger Le-Couture is better than Cartier, enough said in terms of a more money buys a better product ideology." And he is right. JLC is better finished, both inside and outside, plus the movements are ten times better (of course you posted a picture of a watch with a quartz movement, so you might not appreciate the situation). Interestingly enough there was a period of time when JLC made watches for Cartier, and they were essentially JLC's with Cartier written on the dial. By the way, it's not an argument it is a discussion. Jon.Quote:
Actually, Mr. Watch Expert the Cartier Chrono-Reflex has been deemed a far finer movement than most automatic movements on the market, by such esteemed publications as Horology International, Catro D'Vesquela and COSC Bi-Annual Review. Therefore, why you constantly call it an inferior quartz movement also brings me many laughs.
Tell me again how Quartz Cartier's are better than mechanical Tourbillon JLC's...
(TCN @ 15 July 2004, 3:56) ImageWIS, Would you agree, that for the money, there are few better finished movements and cases than a basic SS JLC Reverso?Quote:
(kalra2411 @ 15 July 2004, 10:03) Actually, Mr. Watch Expert the Cartier Chrono-Reflex has been deemed a far finer movement than most automatic movements on the market, by such esteemed publications as Horology International, Catro D'Vesquela and COSC Bi-Annual Review. Therefore, why you constantly call it an inferior quartz movement also brings me many laughs.Quote:
Shows how much you understand, I said automatic movement, not mechanical (i.e. wound) - a tourbillion is a complication. I would not know why the Chrono-Reflex is better than most automatic movements, but as you should know, three much esteemed publications in the world of watches have said so.Tell me again how Quartz Cartier's are better than mechanical Tourbillon JLC's...
(ernest @ 14 July 2004, 9:01)Quote:
With reference to E. Goyard, there products are horrible looking. They constantly approach me to have something custom made by them, but I obviously decline, as their products look so bad to me. They even offer me absurd discounts, but I am not going to buy something, which looks so bad. I am a firm believer that the most expensive product is not always the best, as is often the case: Mercedes is far better than Rolls Royce or Bentley. Cartier is far better than Rolex or Patek (agreed, Pateks are much better made watches, but Cartier simply look a lot better). Johnnie Walker Green Label is better than Blue Label Johnnie Walker Black Label is better than Glenfiddich Vuitton is better than Goyard But then again, most expensive can also mean the best: Boeing is better than Bombardier (Learjet) is. Kiton, Huntsman, Oxxford, Bijon and Brioni are better than Zegna. Murano is better than Lalique Dom Perignon, and Roderer Crystal are better than Moet & Chandon or BollingerOriginally Posted by kalra2411,14 July 2004, 2:23
Much better. Have you even tried the aquanaute ? I do not think so... Talking about just look of a watch, you have 3 differents thing : 1) picture 2) real life 3) wearing on your wrist Many watches look nice in 1) but are ugly in 3) Can I tell you that Patek has not only one model and Cartier neither.Patek is better???
(kalra2411 @ 15 July 2004, 2:14)Quote:
Actually, Mr. Watch Expert the Cartier Chrono-Reflex has been deemed a far finer movement than most automatic movements on the market, by such esteemed publications as Horology International, Catro D'Vesquela and COSC Bi-Annual Review. Therefore, why you constantly call it an inferior quartz movement also brings me many laughs.Originally Posted by kalra2411,15 July 2004, 10:03
Shows how much you understand, I said automatic movement, not mechanical (i.e. wound) - a tourbillion is a complication. I would not know why the Chrono-Reflex is better than most automatic movements, but as you should know, three much esteemed publications in the world of watches have said so.Tell me again how Quartz Cartier's are better than mechanical Tourbillon JLC's...