Lifting weights and wearing tailored clothing?

[bdavro23]

Yeah I have 0 back pain as of right now.

How do I know if I'm going down that road? Foam rolling my hips before/after deadlifts has worked so far.

I used to round my upper back while doing them, but I stopped that. Also learned to engage my glutes more on deadlifts by keeping my hips wider than usual.

Not sure what to click on for that Flaherty guy, but it sounds like you're saying focus less on the eccentric/negative portion of a movement? As I understand it, that's usually where a lot of muscle growth occurs, so you're saying if I drop it, muscle growth will drop?

My situation isnt yours, but certainly be mindful of hip/ glute pain.

You've got the basics right. I am also not an exercise physiologist, so take that for what its worth. There is a Hex bar link on his site that details part of his work with removing the negative. Obviously not practical for all lifts, but muscle size and muscle strength are not exclusively linked.

 

[stuffedsuperdud]

As for getting strong without getting big, you can do it by skipping the negative movement. This guy is pretty interesting and has done some revolutionary work with the hex bar:

Ryan J. Flaherty

Ryan J. Flaherty is a top trainer in athletic performance, using science based training Ryan's passion is to help athletes achieve their full potential.

ryanjflaherty.com

Good luck

I don't know if I totally agree with this Ryan Flaherty guy. From a coaching perspective, I suspect I know the real reason behind his love affair with the hex bar: he works with lots of athletes from lots of sports, and the movement of raising and lowering the hex bar kind of provides some of the benefits of both the squat and the deadlift but is technically easier than both. When you have to take care of a room full of athletes all varying wildly in their ability to do more technical lifts, the hex bar is a nice jack of all trades that requires relatively little coaching/supervision. But for a healthy young guy with no hip or ankle mobility troubles who just wants to get bigger/stronger, I'd encourage just doing the barbell lifts.

Re: negatives specifically, as it pertains to size and strength, to the best of my knowledge, it is precisely the negative that doe the most to make you stronger. The idea is that if all the muscle fibrils are pulling to contract the muscle, but the muscle is lengthening anyway instead of contracting, you create more microtears in the filaments that pull together to generate force. Historically, the concentric (positive) half of the movement was actually thought to contribute more to size than strength; the reasoning is that the size of a muscle was thought to be due primarily to the liquid content, which contains glycogen, the local energy source. Since it is during the concentric that the fibers are actively pulling themselves over a distance, which requires energy input, the adaptation is to increase glycogen stores, which swells up the muscle a bit. More recently, the school of thought seems to have shifted and both size and strength are probably more a function of tonnage (reps X weight) more than simply reps or concentric vs. not, but strength does seem somewhat enhanced by eccentric work.

TL;DR I don't think there's an obvious way to add just size or just strength, but I do believe that negatives contribute more to strength than size. Disclaimer of course is that I took these classes in school but have not been in kinesiology/physiology since, so I could have forgotten a lot and things could have changed in the time since.

Well this is admittedly stressful...So it sounds like you're saying it's best for me to suck it up and blast through noob gains phase and deal with the tailoring later?

Well, like bdavro said, don't hurt yourself. "Suck it up" meaning that an aggressive linear progression is mentally taxing and requires some discipline re: food, sleep, etc. but it'll get you to your new equilibrium physique faster. It doesn't mean powering through a small injury and risking blowing it up into a big one.

I'm just one data point, but for your reference, when I was starting out, I was 5'9" 175lbs, and wore a 43R suit with 34x31 (slim) pants, and a 16.5"/35" shirt. At the time my 5RMs for squat/bench/deadlift/press were about 100/70/100/45 (kg). After I ran a novice linear progression over a six month period, with a (regrettably) dirty bulk, I was still 5'9" but now about 220lbs. I bought a suit around then and it was a 44R, with 36x31 pants, but no longer slim; shirt size was now 17.5/35. At the time, my 5RMs were up to 150/105/140/65. I trained steadily from there but progress got much slower. Today my everyday 5RMs, when not peaking, are more like 185/105/180/80 but my shirt size is the same. I'm not as reliably a 44 anymore, and occasionally have to bump it up to a 46, but not always. I'm still about 5'9" 220lbs, and same waist size.

So my point is, there's a big change pushing through that novice phase, and then progress in both size and strength slow down a lot, assuming you don't fat-************* in pursuit of gainzzz that no one really cares about. You have three options: 1. get your suit now, and then stay at the same size and let your strength fall where it will fall, 2. do the aggressive linear progression and get your suit 6-8 months from now, when you're a bigger size, or 3. milk that 5/3/1 very very slowly, but then you'll constantly be growing out of way more clothes over and over again. My vote is for option 2. You still might eventually outgrow those clothes, but you'll be able to wear them for a long time until that day comes.

 

[Waldo Jeffers]

My 2 cents:

if you have been lifting regularly less than one year, don’t invest heavily in clothes. Buy shoes instead

past that, it’s mainly about diet. In fact, for the long term it’s mainly about diet. Go to any gym and observe all of the fat lifters

once you plateau on easy gainz, figure out your steady state calorie intake. better yet, try being a bit under what you think you need to maintain because everyone cheats and your metabolism will only slow as you age

from there, stop focusing on hitting lifting numbers unless you plan to compete in lifting. Nobody cares what you bench, squat, etc and chasing a number will eventually lead to an injury

if you care about clothes (and you do) you should be lifting for aesthetics and as a healthy hobby

lower reps (sub 5)/heavier weights or higher reps (above 12) light weights will reduce any bulking especially if you are not in calorie surplus

keep in mind that most people who look very good in clothes are not monsters

 

[Phileas Fogg]

Not to be flip, but why don’t you just stick to cardio, core and body weight exercises. That way you won’t have to worry. This is a problem of your own making but the solution lies solely with you. Good luck.

 

[Waldo Jeffers]

Also, be realistic about your mobility/flexibility

if you feel pain from doing any lift, that is a signal to stop

you can ignore it but eventually you will get hurt for real

some people for example simply don’t have the flexibility to squat below parallel or to deadlift with a straight bar from the floor

if this is you, you can spend a long time trying to gain mobility (which can be very productive but it’s not fast)

or you can simply modify or substitute lifts to do them safely

you will get more gainz and look and feel way better by lifting safely for the long term than by doing things the way some formulaic program tells you you should be doing them that just leads you to injury

listen to your body

 

[gs77]

keep in mind that most people who look very good in clothes are not monsters

This.

Not to be flip, but why don’t you just stick to cardio, core and body weight exercises. That way you won’t have to worry. This is a problem of your own making but the solution lies solely with you. Good lick.

And this.

It is very hard for someone with so much muscles to look good in any decent clothes. Just like someone too skinny or someone too fat. You'll just be too out of proportion.
Of course, dont want to preach certain lifestyle choices, but always puzzled why don't people stick with moderately enjoying some kind of traditional sport.

 

[Waldo Jeffers]

Lifting is a lot of fun- I totally get it

I have a pretty bitchin home gym and I lift usually 5x per week

I’m also in my early 40s and have been doing this for 20+ yrs

I am not jacked and don’t lift crazy numbers. I keep my diet in check and stay low body fat

most lifters I see go nuts for a year or two, bulk up, get hurt and then get fat

 

[stuffedsuperdud]

Not to be flip, but why don’t you just stick to cardio, core and body weight exercises. That way you won’t have to worry. This is a problem of your own making but the solution lies solely with you. Good luck.

And this.

It is very hard for someone with so much muscles to look good in any decent clothes. Just like someone too skinny or someone too fat. You'll just be too out of proportion.
Of course, dont want to preach certain lifestyle choices, but always puzzled why don't people stick with moderately enjoying some kind of traditional sport.

It's incredibly disappointing to see these outdated views rearing their heads, especially from tailoring enthusiasts. A structured garment specifically exaggerates a man's shoulders while nipping down his waist. Why is that so celebrated, but pursuing a body that looks that way naturally held in such contempt? I mean, no one's talking about looking like the reigning Mr. Olympia or squatting 1000lb+, though those are perfectly honorable goals in their own right; there's plenty of middle ground between that and whatever the heck y'all mean by "core and traditional sport."

And even if we were to talk extremes, above is the greatest bodybuilder of all time in his prime and dressed in the traddiest, most SF-approved outfit possible. 70's lapels aside, which actually kinda work for his chest, I would dare say he looks better than 99% of the guys on this site....

 

[Waldo Jeffers]

It's incredibly disappointing to see these outdated views rearing their heads, especially from tailoring enthusiasts. A structured garment specifically exaggerates a man's shoulders while nipping down his waist. Why is that so celebrated, but pursuing a body that looks that way naturally held in such contempt? I mean, no one's talking about looking like the reigning Mr. Olympia or squatting 1000lb+, but there's plenty of middle ground between that and whatever the heck y'all mean by "core and traditional sport."

And even if we were to talk extremes, above is the greatest bodybuilder of all time in his prime and dressed in the traddiest, most SF-approved outfit possible. 70's lapels aside, which actually kinda work for his chest, I would dare say he looks better than 99% of the guys on this site....

agree and there are tons of less extreme examples

almost all famous male actors and male models lift

 

[Phileas Fogg]

It's incredibly disappointing to see these outdated views rearing their heads, especially from tailoring enthusiasts. A structured garment specifically exaggerates a man's shoulders while nipping down his waist. Why is that so celebrated, but pursuing a body that looks that way naturally held in such contempt? I mean, no one's talking about looking like the reigning Mr. Olympia or squatting 1000lb+, though those are perfectly honorable goals in their own right; there's plenty of middle ground between that and whatever the heck y'all mean by "core and traditional sport."

And even if we were to talk extremes, above is the greatest bodybuilder of all time in his prime and dressed in the traddiest, most SF-approved outfit possible. 70's lapels aside, which actually kinda work for his chest, I would dare say he looks better than 99% of the guys on this site....

simply addressing the OP’s concern. He’s too cheap for bespoke (His words). Therefore, don’t bulk up to proportions that are outside the range of RTW. I’ll guess that the suit Arnold is wearing was bespoke.

 

[gs77]

whatever the heck y'all mean by "core and traditional sport."

You know... traditional sport, like chopping wood (plus it's useful). LOL...

Ok, I get it. Sometimes man needs to get some strength and muscles... maybe I'm just old(fashioned) in that I don't see that as a useful goal in by itself.

 

[Chaconne]

I could be an anomaly, or just a weakling, but in my experience weight gain has nothing to do with lifting, even heavy weights, and everything to do with eating. I also submit...

 

[FlyingHorker]

@stuffedsuperdud I was very careful from the start to avoid dirty bulking. Option 1 to maintain size and deal with strength wherever it falls it is!

@Waldo Jeffers Foam rolling helps me a ton. I've gotten multiple form checks for squats and deadlifts. My main issue is messing up the rhythm of bracing my core and breathing. I will straight up forget to breathe after some lifts.

@gs77 I'm a depressed wreck with 0 co-ordination. There are very few things in life that give me as much joy in life than picking up heavy stuff, then putting it back down.

You know... traditional sport, like chopping wood (plus it's useful). LOL...

Ok, I get it. Sometimes man needs to get some strength and muscles... maybe I'm just old(fashioned) in that I don't see that as a useful goal in by itself.

I revel in the absurdity of it.

FWIW, I no longer have back pain. I've had crippling back pain since 4th grade, and my posture is ridiculously improved. Way less anterior pelvic tilt, and my neck is straight.

My 2 cents:

if you have been lifting regularly less than one year, don’t invest heavily in clothes. Buy shoes instead

past that, it’s mainly about diet. In fact, for the long term it’s mainly about diet. Go to any gym and observe all of the fat lifters

once you plateau on easy gainz, figure out your steady state calorie intake. better yet, try being a bit under what you think you need to maintain because everyone cheats and your metabolism will only slow as you age

from there, stop focusing on hitting lifting numbers unless you plan to compete in lifting. Nobody cares what you bench, squat, etc and chasing a number will eventually lead to an injury

if you care about clothes (and you do) you should be lifting for aesthetics and as a healthy hobby

lower reps (sub 5)/heavier weights or higher reps (above 12) light weights will reduce any bulking especially if you are not in calorie surplus

keep in mind that most people who look very good in clothes are not monsters

I care!

I always do sub-maximal training on compound lifts. Injuries will happen no matter what, but I definitely focus on safety.

It's incredibly disappointing to see these outdated views rearing their heads, especially from tailoring enthusiasts. A structured garment specifically exaggerates a man's shoulders while nipping down his waist. Why is that so celebrated, but pursuing a body that looks that way naturally held in such contempt? I mean, no one's talking about looking like the reigning Mr. Olympia or squatting 1000lb+, though those are perfectly honorable goals in their own right; there's plenty of middle ground between that and whatever the heck y'all mean by "core and traditional sport."

And even if we were to talk extremes, above is the greatest bodybuilder of all time in his prime and dressed in the traddiest, most SF-approved outfit possible. 70's lapels aside, which actually kinda work for his chest, I would dare say he looks better than 99% of the guys on this site....

Agreed. Here is another guy from AAAC, he looks great.

 

[stuffedsuperdud]

You know... traditional sport, like chopping wood (plus it's useful). LOL...

Ok, I get it. Sometimes man needs to get some strength and muscles... maybe I'm just old(fashioned) in that I don't see that as a useful goal in by itself.

There seems to be some confusion from you and a few others about all the different strength sports. Because, as you may already be able to tell, strength training is quite dear to me, I'll provide a free guide. TL;DR it's not all just big muscles and narcissism.

Strength training is a broad term, but within it are a few distinct sports/hobbies that look similar. You have:

Powerlifting
This is a sport in which athletes perform three lifts, the squat, bench, and deadlift. Each athlete gets three attempts at each lift, so 9 lifts total, and their heaviest successful attempts in each lift are added together for a total score. Athletes are divided by weight classes.

Olympic weightlifting
This is a sport in which athletes perform two lifts, the snatch and the clean&jerk. Similar to powerlifting, we get three attempts at each of the two lifts, so six total, and your highest successful attempt in each exercise is added together to get your total. For snatch and clean&jerk, the rules are identical to the high-jump in track and field, i.e. the bar only gets heavier as the competition goes on and you cannot lift a lighter barbell than what has already been attempted by yourself or another athlete. This is internationally known simply as weightlifting and is an Olympic sport. There are weight classes. Because of highly technique-dependent nature of these lifts, this isn't really great for casual exercisers, and I recommend it mostly only to people interested in competing in Olympic weightlifting.

Strongman
This is the one you see on ESPN sometimes, with giant guys lifting rocks and pushing cars and whatnot. The exact events vary from contest to contest along with victory conditions, and there are no weight classes at the higher levels of this sport, so it's always a bunch of huge guys showing up. Injuries in this thing are pretty freaky.

Bodybuilding
This is, for better or for worse, the most popular form strength competition. I hesitate to call it a sport even, because you don't actually lift in competition. Rather, it's a beauty contest that you prepare for by lifting a lot, and then, as the big day nears, by going on a bizarre regimen of starvation and water cutting, so that when you're on stage, you actually feel pretty bad. There are no weight classes at the higher levels of the sport, and no drug restrictions, so things get pretty crazy. Back in Arnold's day, criterion were based primarily on proportion, (and drugs weren't that good) and everyone looked like a comic book superhero. With today's criteria though, everyone just looks kind of bloated, or like a comic book supervillain after the Faustian drug infusion that gives them their powers.

Casual strength training
This is non-competitive activity where people just go to the weight room and vaguely talk about trying to get bigger and stronger. Unfortunately, because of bodybuilding's popularity, most of these casual exercisers adopt diluted versions of methods that apply only to elite level bodybuilders, which seems to mostly involve futzing around on machines, and get nowhere. More recently though, people like OP have found that methods from powerlifting have been more conducive towards their goals, that is, a bit bigger, a big stronger, and a bit more proportioned a la Michaelangelo's David. You can 't wear suitsupply pants anymore though.

As you can see, bodybuilding is the only one that kind of encourages the frivolous addition of muscle. All the rest are either legitimate sporting contests, or are meant to make person stronger/healthier in general, so that they can live a more exciting life outside the gym. For example, if you can squat 200kg at age 40, you can probably expect to still be living a very active life at 80, and there will never come the day when you cannot get out of a chair, or break an osteoporetic hip. Aesthetically, weightlifting and powerlifting are full-body sports, and I've found that while training for looks isn't the goal, most of us develop reasonably proportioned physiques anyway, kind of what laypeople describe as "more toned."

It is very hard for someone with so much muscles to look good in any decent clothes. Just like someone too skinny or someone too fat. You'll just be too out of proportion.

I might have made my point already, but as long as I'm beating this dead horse, here are a bunch of musclebound meatheads who look rather nice in decent clothes.

Here are Henry Cavill, fresh off the set of Superman, where he put on a huge pile of muscle to play the archetypal Greek god superhero, and Hugh Jackman at the Logan premiere. In Logan, he was probably the biggest he had ever been:

Both of them did a combination of powerlifting and bodybuilding to prepare for the roles, and and were huge at the time these pictures were taken. Looks good to me.

How about some athletes, who didn't focus on bodybuilding, and simply on getting bigger/stronger? That's former NFL tight end Shannon Sharpe on the left, the best dressed guy every Sunday, and the goliath on the right needs no introduction.

​

I can do this all day but a quick Google search would be easiest for all of us. The point is, I might agree with you that it is certainly possible for a musclehead to buy an ill-fitting suit that he thinks is "comfortable," and there's no question that a modern elite-level bodybuilder like Ronnie Coleman doesn't exactly fit any conventional definition of beauty, suited or not, but judging from pictures like the above, and with eye towards why structured jackets are built the way they are, I would argue that compared to someone with a standard male body (5'10" 180lbs and kinda skinnyfat) it is much easier for a muscular guy to look good in a suit.

 

[FlyingHorker]

@stuffedsuperdud

I talked to the 60 year old dude I always see at the gym and he said he's been doing strength training for 40 years.

I can tell by the heavy ass weights he's lifting that he's likely healthier than the average 30 year old.

His posture is great too.

I feel the same way. I can stand without my back killing me, I can shovel snow without my back killing me, my anterior pelvic tilt is much more diminished.