Leather cracking on EGs - please advise

[james_timothy]

Originally Posted by RIDER

Reno is basically a Mink Oil with a variety of other oils in the mix while Lexol is synthetic Sperm Whale Oil.

That's what I read.

 

[Luddite]

Oh, boy - bold and italics!

I sure done got told.

 

[Don Carlos]

Originally Posted by DWFII

I'm not sure of the significance in this context. As I said, above "it wasn't always that way." Once upon a time everything was made by hand. And valued accordingly.
You're a little too defensive. Relax. My point about the definition of "manufacture" was basically just color commentary to another post you made. It wasn't a critique of your post. You seem to have regarded it as such, which makes no sense. If anything, it highly supported your overall position. At this point I would suggest you take a deep breath and step away from this thread for a day or two. I like you, and I value your expertise on all things shoe-related. But you've got a short fuse, and you have a hard time letting things go whenever you feel under attack (which, 99% of the time, you're not -- well, at least until you start lashing out at people). Just some honest personal advice here; do with it what you will.

 

[Cravate_Noire]

Originally Posted by Ich_Dien

Come on, they're almost five years old.

I have older rtw shoes, from less expensive makers, really fucked up at frat and uni parties (bought before I event started going to uni) and it did not happen in such extent to them.

Most probably however, this is rather broken shoe wax than bad leather.

 

[Don Carlos]

Originally Posted by Cravate_Noire

I have older rtw shoes, from less expensive makers, really fucked up at frat and uni parties (bought before I event started going to uni) and it did not happen in such extent to them. Most probably however, this is rather broken shoe wax than bad leather.
My guess is that the OP's shoes got dried out from being overly waxed, or at least from not having regularly stripped and re-applied the wax. If you've got a built-up layer of wax on your shoes, you can't just leave it there indefinitely. It'll dry out the shoe, which leads to cracked leather. It doesn't matter how much conditioner you apply on top of the wax; very little of that conditioner, if any, is going to permeate the wax coating and get into the leather. This is why I don't wax shoes I'm putting away for more than a few weeks at a time. Always conditioner, and occasionally creme, but only wax if I'm about to wear the shoes.

 

[markspencer]

No one from any company can ever provide a time estimate for how long shoes will last, measured in units of time. Its a function of the shoe, AND how often its worn, AND what conditions its worn in, AND how its cared for. The maker can only control the first variable, and even then not entirely.

None of these 1000 dollar shoes are magic unicorns. Get your heads around that.

They are expensive luxury items, not value items. If you want value buy corrected grain leather and replace every 5 years. But you lose the nice looking leather. Tradeoff.

 

[RIDER]

Originally Posted by Kuro

Thanks for your post. Does renovatuer have ingredients in common with the mdo cream? I've always thought there was some overlap, so I never used both at the same time. Also, could you comment on the the consistency of the new renovatuer lotion?

Hi Kuro -

The only thing that changed - besides the packaging - this year was the addition of a small amount of pure hoof oil. This was added to both the Reonvateur and the Pommadier Creams.

 

[RIDER]

Originally Posted by DWFII

You are wrong about my perspective on factories.

It is not the factory itself or even the underlying objectives, philosophies, etc., that inform factories that bothers me.

Rather it is the attitude of the vast majority or people who live in a society which is so dominated by the hype of advertising (an inevitable and even necessary adjunct to mass-manufacturing) and the prospects of faster, cheaper, less involved, that they live their lives as if life itself were simply another department in some cosmic factory.

We...and I include myself in this--it is hard to escape...eat fast food, talk to each other in short, almost unintelligible bursts on devices that insulate us from real intimacy or human contact. We drive our cars so wrapped up in detachment or diversion that we don't even see our surroundings.

You can go on and on. Is there an area of modern existence that is not on a time clock? Is there one where quantity is not valued over quality? Even the law--laws get passed every day that seem to deliberately ignore truth...facts, IOW...in favour of perception. It doesn't make any difference what reality is, perception has become reality.

It is the triumph of style over substance. In every aspect of our lives. It is nearly genetic by now...although it wasn't always that way.

And most people in our society not only can't recognize the difference, they aren't even interested in learning that there is a difference. Similar to my observations about "honour" and "ethics." It's all part of the same paradigm.

It is not the factories that I lament--they are inevitable (given human nature) and undoubtedly serve a useful purpose. No, it is the mass buy-in to the mentality of the factory that bothers me. Not the _______ s (fill in your favourite shoe brand name) of the world but the consumers who think that manufacturers set the standard for quality...and ought to.

[Parenthetically, the Guild I belong to has members who speak for, and from, the manufacturing community--they are accorded at least a modicum of respect. And I am currently in the final stages of scanning and recognizing J. H.Thornton's, Textbook of Footwear Manufacture--a project that has occupied me for more than three years. Thornton's perspective is decidedly factory. Without some residual respect...I would even go so far as to stipulate that without, in some ways, more real respect for manufacturers than the average SF member has...I could not sustain that kind of effort.]

I'm not trying to change or eradicate factories...I'm coming for you! (a generic "you")

Ok, good to know.

Cheers -

 

[Kuro]

Originally Posted by RIDER

Hi Kuro -

The only thing that changed - besides the packaging - this year was the addition of a small amount of pure hoof oil. This was added to both the Reonvateur and the Pommadier Creams.

Hi sorry, was referring to the mdo lotion (below)....have you used this yet?

I have saphir creme universelle and it does an ok job...

thanks

 

[DWFII]

Originally Posted by Don Carlos

You're a little too defensive. Relax. My point about the definition of "manufacture" was basically just color commentary to another post you made. ...
You would have had me if you'd let it go at the first paragraph. I didn't read your remarks defensively, and my response to you was pretty bland...almost chit-chat. I don't know how you can read it any other way. The whole issue of the origins/roots of the word "manufacture" has been raised so many times, it almost a warrants "sticky" on the forum. I really don't know what it contributed but I was happy to engage you in conversation. As for the second paragraph....and your advice...thank you but I disagree. I don't have a short fuse but the fuse can be lit and when it is, the result is explosive. I've seen this bunch come in and take over thread after thread...bringing nothing constructive to the discussion, or the forum in general, for that matter. And it's the same bunch over and over again...sometimes the names change but the words and methods are always the same. Mostly I let it go, sometimes not. c'est la vie.

"I hate rude behaviour" Woodrow Call

 

[RIDER]

First, let me set your mind at ease (although I find myself doing this...for the very same reason...more often with people who skim over remarks and don't read for content or, ahem, "substance.")-- I didn't say this was "bad quality" leather. I asked if anyone thought it was top quality leather.

Ask Rider the same question...that's your vision quest for the day. Rider has access to leathers that we seldom see in the US. He certainly has experience with a wider range of leathers, and a wider range of quality leathers. In all likelihood, Rider sees a greater percentage of top quality, first choice, skins than most most bespoke makers ever will.

Whether that translates into a recognition of quality at first sight (from a photo), is not for me to say. Perhaps his silence is telling?

QUOTE]

It wouldn't be fair for me to try to answer this question.....especially just looking at a picture. Sorry.

But, I can tell you that I know the folks at EG and they do not short cut leather purchasing, so you can assume the uppers are first rate from the tannery.

However, we all have troubles these days - and for the last 6-7 years, really - getting good calfskins. You cannot always tell if the grain will break before cutting and lasting....this just happens sometimes. Just last week I was called to the shop to look at a pair on black monkstraps someone had a problem with. Same story - the leather was cracking at the outside flex point. Black French Calf from Annonay, a long time customer who had these made up special for him around 3 years ago. I immediately offered to make again or exchange for RTW available, and he took 2 pair out of stock. Simple. **** happens - not much you can do.

After Freudenburg (a tannery that specialized in black calfskin production and who most good factories bought black calf from) went out the big 3 tanneries in France tried to keep up with demand. 6 years ago or so Costil went out, and this really hurt the classic calf that was on the market in decent amounts. Annonay and du Puy both cut down the boarding time greatly to make deliveries, and ever since then these sort of things pop up.

As far as this specific situation, it's really between you and EG.....can't offer any true advise - especially from a picture.

 

[RIDER]

Originally Posted by Kuro

Hi sorry, was referring to the mdo lotion (below)....have you used this yet?

I have saphir creme universelle and it does an ok job...

thanks

Ahh......this is the same but far less concentrated. It is geared more for leathergoods, furniture, car interiors, etc.

note - for leather car or motorcyle seats I would recommend Lexol.

 

[DWFII]

Originally Posted by RIDER

... Just last week I was called to the shop to look at a pair on black monkstraps someone had a problem with. Same story - the leather was cracking at the outside flex point. Black French Calf from Annonay, a long time customer who had these made up special for him around 3 years ago.
I am curious if you have an opinion as to why it's mostly black leather that seems to crack? Also...what is "boarding time?" It's possible I know this by another term, maybe I don't.

 

[Cuttingboard]

Originally Posted by Don Carlos

My guess is that the OP's shoes got dried out from being overly waxed, or at least from not having regularly stripped and re-applied the wax. If you've got a built-up layer of wax on your shoes, you can't just leave it there indefinitely. It'll dry out the shoe, which leads to cracked leather. It doesn't matter how much conditioner you apply on top of the wax; very little of that conditioner, if any, is going to permeate the wax coating and get into the leather. This is why I don't wax shoes I'm putting away for more than a few weeks at a time. Always conditioner, and occasionally creme, but only wax if I'm about to wear the shoes.
I have a pair of shoes that I received from the cobbler (new leather sole) and they have a beautiful mirror shine, similar to a lacquer coating. I'm not sure if this is wax or another spray chemical and while conditioning my shoes last night I was not able to get rid of the shine to condition the leather. Can someone tell me what the cobbler may have put on my shoes and how I remove it?

 

[DWFII]

Originally Posted by Cuttingboard

I have a pair of shoes that I received from the cobbler (new leather sole) and they have a beautiful mirror shine, similar to a lacquer coating. I'm not sure if this is wax or another spray chemical and while conditioning my shoes last night I was not able to get rid of the shine to condition the leather. Can someone tell me what the cobbler may have put on my shoes and how I remove it?
There are products on the market (I can remember when I first ran across them--when I was in the service forty-five years or so ago) that come in spray cans and purport to give you an "Instant Spit Shine." Those products are still on the market and some shoe repair shops use them as a matter of course. (style trumps substance.) Now in my opinion...and it may be left over from that earlier time...these products not only contain silicone but will eventually damage the leather on your shoes. They will cause the leather to crack over time. That said, a real spit shine is not good for the leather, either, especially over the foot or any where it will crease. Wax buildup is a recipe for cracking of the leather. How to remove it? Not knowing exactly what it is, I can't advise. Prevention is the best medicine.