Keeping old etiquette rules alive

[willpower]

Anyone else get the inner voice "this chick must dig me" signal when a woman holds a door open for you?

 

[hendrix]

Originally Posted by Telefonica

+ 1. I've never understood the "I can open the door myself argument." I know you can open the door, I'm not doing it because I don't think you can.

So you admit that you're doing it for yourself then?

 

[Dakota rube]

Originally Posted by willpower

Anyone else get the inner voice "this chick must dig me" signal when a woman holds a door open for you?

I used to.
Now I realize she's only doing it because I am an old ******.

 

[Sazerac]

Originally Posted by willpower

I think being called "ma'am" is interpreted by a woman as an offhanded slight, implying that she looks old enough to be called "ma'am". But what are the alternatives - "Madam"?, "Lady"?, "You hot little piece of ass"? I'm guessing the last one would actually be considered flattering to many women. Let's all try it and report back on the results.

Nothing wrong with "miss" for a woman who is your age or younger. Never had a bad reaction to it.

Then again, I like being called "mister" as opposed to "sir."

 

[Joffrey]

while in France a few years ago, I mistakenly called a 20something year old waitress "Madame" instead of "mademoiselle". She was visibly upset with me.

 

[Avocat]

^^^ Really? It's actually proper in most places where they speak French (i.e., France, Quebec, etc.) to refer to men (including waiters) as Monsieur (Mister) and women as Madame (Madam). In days past, Mademoiselle (miss) was used to refer to young women (i.e., under 30) and only then if unmarried, but not in Quebec where--since its founding--everybody's a "Monsieur" or "Madame." [Note: these terms were actually titles reserved for those without any actual title (i.e. below the aristocracy whom alone would be referred to as "m’lord", "m’lady", which are formalities still used when addressing i.e. the High Court, for e.g.).]

Despite this, people in the service industry---such as a waiter/waitress, etc.---would in all French places be referred to as 'mademoiselle' (miss) if female regardless of age or marital status. (Male waiters were called "garcon" (boy), but today are referred to as "monsieur" since calling a grown man a boy isn't proper by today's standards). 'Mademoiselle' is still acceptable when referring to a female server (so far as it's generic), but in no way makes it wrong to refer to her as Madame either: in other words, the only mistake was on her part and not yours, Jodum. I certainly hope that you did not leave her a tip!

Could be the woman serving you, Jodum, is a stickler for the old rules and formalities (I still hope you did not leave her a tip), though most French women (as in, women not teenagers/girls) do not like to be called 'mademoiselle' today regardless of their age or marital status (i.e., draws undue attention to same), and especially not a professional woman in any case.

 

[Avocat]

Originally Posted by willpower

Anyone else get the inner voice "this chick must dig me" signal when a woman holds a door open for you?

Originally Posted by willpower

I think being called "ma'am" is interpreted by a woman as an offhanded slight, implying that she looks old enough to be called "ma'am". But what are the alternatives - "Madam"?, "Lady"?, "You hot little piece of ass"? I'm guessing the last one would actually be considered flattering to many women. Let's all try it and report back on the results.
Well, if after calling her *that* she holds a door open for you, I can see where you'd get that vibe, alright ... but be careful, though. She may just be opening it so that you enter, only to let it suddenly close

EDIT: Ah, but your point re: referring to a woman as "ma'am" is a good one. Apart from those in law enforcement and the military (where the ranking system requires the use of "Ma'am" and "Sir"), I agree with you that it's safe to use "Madam" (except maybe not in a certain resto in France, ... ). But Ma'am is still considered proper in the Southern USA, no?

 

[Joffrey]

Originally Posted by Avocat

^^^ Really? It's actually considered proper now in most (if not all) places where they speak French (i.e., France, Quebec, etc.) to refer to all men (including waitors) as, "Monsieur" (Mister) and women as Madame (Madam). In days past, "Mademoiselle" (miss) was used to refer to young women (i.e., under 30) and only then if unmarried, but not in Quebec where--since its founding--everybody's referred to as a "monsieur" or a "madame." [Note: back then, those terms were actually titles reserved for those without any actual title (ie. below the aristocracy, and whom alone would be referred to as "sir", "lord", "lady", etc.).]

Despite this, people in the service industry---such as a waitor/waitress, etc.---would in all French places be referred to as 'mademoiselle' (miss) if female regardless of age or marital status. (Male waitors were called "garcon" (boy), but today are referred to as "monsieur" since calling a grown man a boy isn't proper by today's standards). 'Mademoiselle' is still acceptable when referring to a female server (so far as it's generic), but in no way makes it wrong to refer to her as Madame either: in other words, the only mistake was on her part and not yours, Jodum.

Could be the woman serving you, Jodum, is a stickler for the old rules and formalities, though most French women do not like to be called 'mademoiselle' today regardless of their age or marital status, and especially not a professional woman in any case.


Though I still remember it clearly because my friends laughed at me for the mistake, it's quite likely she was just a biatch. Don't really care though.

 

[Avocat]

Originally Posted by Jodum5

Though I still remember it clearly because my friends laughed at me for the mistake, it's quite likely she was just a biatch. Don't really care though.
Yes, I understand completely and agree. I truly hope that you did not leave her a tip (again, you did nothing wrong; also, it's not like you called her "Garcon" (boy), right?). Your observation is bang-on and correct, and I doubt she's still employed in the service industry with an attitude like that, I mean. Glad to hear your friends had a good time of it at least ... er ... *Sigh* And French service is supposed to be the epitome of refinement. (There are actually schools in France that teach the French service; she must have missed that part

 

[Joffrey]

So, on the train today heading to work. Most of the seats are taken so I sit in the section were handicapped or elderly people get priority (but it's not reserved for them). Haggard looking lady with a carriage and two little ones comes in. I of course feel awkward hogging the seat when the tired mom stands there, so I get up and stand in the middle of the train (didn't offer it to her but she was free to take it of course as she was right infront of it). ************* places her carriage next to the three seats (two for handicapped/elderly people and a normal one therefore blocking access for other people) and one little kid lays down on them so he can dick around. Meanwhile she just stands there without a care in the world. People keep coming in and I know they want one or two of those seats. Anyway I keep flipping my gre flashcards. Finally after about 10 minutes she sits down one of the seats with the kid, while her carriage blocks the last free seat.

I get out of the train and head to my building. As I'm heading to the door, this cute blonde is rushing out. There are two of us outside about to come in and she storms out and let's the door slam shut in our faces. Where the hell is she from, where you don't hold the door open a bit (just to delay the slammed-door-in-face problem for others)???

 

[Sazerac]

Probably a Park Slope mommy who thinks they're the first human being to ever have a kid and, by the way, isn't little Austin or Beaujolais or Hernando the cutest little thing when he spills his sippy cup on you at the bar? Because children should be allowed in bars, you know.

 

[Telefonica]

Originally Posted by hendrix

So you admit that you're doing it for yourself then?

I don't understand the question.

I am opening the door for myself but am holding it open for and allowing the lady to pass through first. Not because I think she is incapable of opening the door herself, but as a sign of respect.

 

[sumoha]

Originally Posted by mharwitt

i open doors, walk on the street side, say ma'am, challenge people to duels, kiss, and try not to rest my elbows on the table. i also stare straight ahead, not down at ******** when using a urinal. i consider the latter to be the height of rudeness.

to whom exactly are you being rude if you stare at ********** instead of the wall?

 

[mordecai]

Originally Posted by sumoha

to whom exactly are you being rude if you stare at ********** instead of the wall?
i wasn't serious about being offended by it, although it does gross me out a little. and before you ask, i also don't often challenge people to duels or consider wet kisses a matter of etiquette.

 

[Joffrey]

Originally Posted by Telefonica

I don't understand the question.

I am opening the door for myself but am holding it open for and allowing the lady to pass through first. Not because I think she is incapable of opening the door herself, but as a sign of respect.

You mean courtesy right? right?