• Hi, I'm the owner and main administrator of Styleforum. If you find the forum useful and fun, please help support it by buying through the posted links on the forum. Our main, very popular sales thread, where the latest and best sales are listed, are posted HERE

    Purchases made through some of our links earns a commission for the forum and allows us to do the work of maintaining and improving it. Finally, thanks for being a part of this community. We realize that there are many choices today on the internet, and we have all of you to thank for making Styleforum the foremost destination for discussions of menswear and fashion.
  • STYLE. COMMUNITY. GREAT CLOTHING.

    Bored of counting likes on social networks? At Styleforum, you’ll find rousing discussions that go beyond strings of emojis.

    Click Here to join Styleforum's thousands of style enthusiasts today!

Kapital - hippies, Japanese farmers and post-apocalypse survivors

BandannAlmanac

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2019
Messages
105
Reaction score
171
Only the thick "sashiko" threads are mud dyed (dorozome). Same as the 123 those are the only natural indigo threads in the fabric. Honestly, the mud dyed ones are more authentically dyed than the 123s. Figure the guy at Kanaikougei (the mud dyer) has to climb in a pool of muddy water for every hank of yarn. Whereas, the 123s are dyed in a massive indigo dyeing factory in Hiroshima, a process that is a partially automated rope dyeing facility.

The mud dyeing process is actually not all that muddy as the name suggests. Its primary dye agent is from bark and wood of the Rhaphiolepis umbellata plant. The mud part is unique to Amami Oshima island, the iron-rich content of the soil acts as an iron mordant which darkens the brown to a very dark brown. Here is the dorozome color on the traditional silk kimono of Amami island, called Oshima-tsumugi. I have had a few pieces dyed there over the years we even experimented with dyeing a vintage nylon MA-1 in doro black with great success. Too bad it shrunk a size... Not sure if this will alter anyones thought on the century denim but I hope at least it gives a bit more insight into what goes into making a product the hard way.

 

peachfuzzmcgee

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2017
Messages
413
Reaction score
369
that’s really cool, do any of the places have services where you could just get things dyed? I’m assuming no, but would be cool to pay money to give something some new color/life. The mud dyed bomber is super super cool afterall
 

BandannAlmanac

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2019
Messages
105
Reaction score
171
that’s really cool, do any of the places have services where you could just get things dyed? I’m assuming no, but would be cool to pay money to give something some new color/life. The mud dyed bomber is super super cool afterall
Kanaikougei will take items for dyeing but it is not cheap to do. Just a heads up. Figure about 8000 yen plus tax for something that weighs 400-600 grams. More than that the price goes up. Also all craft dyers charge by weight even for bolts of fabric, yarn etc. Also turnaround depending on their current dye production will be about a month... usually. The guy who runs the place is really interesting and funny. His personal instagram is @ yukihitokanai their business account is @ kanaikougei I think its best to contact them by email though, for personal orders.
 

peachfuzzmcgee

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2017
Messages
413
Reaction score
369
Good to know, even at the expense, I figure it would be worth it. Especially for more esoteric ideas like dunk dying shoes or leather jackets. I’ll follow them just to check it out. Maybe one day I’ll find something that would be rad to dye.
 

BandannAlmanac

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2019
Messages
105
Reaction score
171
Good to know, even at the expense, I figure it would be worth it. Especially for more esoteric ideas like dunk dying shoes or leather jackets. I’ll follow them just to check it out. Maybe one day I’ll find something that would be rad to dye.
I have a habit of buying white (usually not bleach white, natural white or grey) pieces for the sole purpose of dyeing them after I wear them. Then once they're dyed they look like they are distressed... its kinda of like an X-ray of wear. I wouldn't recommend doing it to any hotel sheets though ;) 😂
 

Efra Lo

Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2020
Messages
9
Reaction score
4
The MA-1 looks amazing, anyone tried the Kapital persimmon dye? Last time I was in Tokyo I wanted one of the century jackets but they only had one dyed in persimmon (I think thats how its called, it was like an overdye with a brawnish finish done instore) I didn't bought it becouse wasnt so sure about how it would age.
 

d4nimal

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2013
Messages
891
Reaction score
1,558
The MA-1 looks amazing, anyone tried the Kapital persimmon dye? Last time I was in Tokyo I wanted one of the century jackets but they only had one dyed in persimmon (I think thats how its called, it was like an overdye with a brawnish finish done instore) I didn't bought it becouse wasnt so sure about how it would age.
I re-dyed my kakishibu/persimmon century denim jacket that I bought used. Before COVID, you could buy the dye/juice off Amazon or Etsy and then dilute it and basically paint it on. Pretty easy to do, and I dyed some natural cotton fabric as well to use for a mask (not the greatest idea, as it smelled bad for a while). It's kind of hard to get an even color on plain fabric if you're not careful, but on something with a lot of visual texture to it already like century denim, it didn't really make any difference. I also experimented adding a touch of iron to darken the color and make it a little "earthier," and I think it went fine but adding even a little iron to dye will alter it drastically.
 

BandannAlmanac

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2019
Messages
105
Reaction score
171
The MA-1 looks amazing, anyone tried the Kapital persimmon dye? Last time I was in Tokyo I wanted one of the century jackets but they only had one dyed in persimmon (I think thats how its called, it was like an overdye with a brawnish finish done instore) I didn't bought it becouse wasnt so sure about how it would age.
I had to do that when I worked at the Osaka store. It is called kakishibu. They age way better than the standard denim. I did a few pairs of my own with that at home and when I worked at Kapital. I have done dozens of of pieces, but the most important thing is that you have to let it soak up sunlight to darken evenly. Otherwise it won't be a very consistent color. It makes a huge difference on the 7S century denim the sumi color.
 

BandannAlmanac

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2019
Messages
105
Reaction score
171
I re-dyed my kakishibu/persimmon century denim jacket that I bought used. Before COVID, you could buy the dye/juice off Amazon or Etsy and then dilute it and basically paint it on. Pretty easy to do, and I dyed some natural cotton fabric as well to use for a mask (not the greatest idea, as it smelled bad for a while). It's kind of hard to get an even color on plain fabric if you're not careful, but on something with a lot of visual texture to it already like century denim, it didn't really make any difference. I also experimented adding a touch of iron to darken the color and make it a little "earthier," and I think it went fine but adding even a little iron to dye will alter it drastically.
Kakishibu seems simple but there are a few parts of the process you left out. Such as washing it after it dries, and leaving it out to absorb sunlight so it darkens evenly. Painting it on is just a demonstration for century denim, if want to actually dye stuff in kakishibu you have to soak it. To get a nice even brown color it takes a few weeks. Iron mordant will turn it black even a dash of the stuff will turn the tannic juice to almost black.
 

d4nimal

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2013
Messages
891
Reaction score
1,558
Kakishibu seems simple but there are a few parts of the process you left out. Such as washing it after it dries, and leaving it out to absorb sunlight so it darkens evenly. Painting it on is just a demonstration for century denim, if want to actually dye stuff in kakishibu you have to soak it. To get a nice even brown color it takes a few weeks. Iron mordant will turn it black even a dash of the stuff will turn the tannic juice to almost black.
Thanks, you're right. I didn't wash it afterwards when I did my century denim, though I did leave it out in the sun for several days on a free-rotating hanger to darken. After watching that one video where they paint the century denim, I just thought that was how it is done 🤷‍♂️, especially as the inside of century denim still has undyed/white weft thread. Maybe I was just misinterpreting what may have been yarn dyeing. When I made my mask fabric, I ended up soaking that fabric and subsequently washing it after it dried. Experimenting with different iron compositions, as you said, definitely changed the color of the tannin juice quite a bit, though a small amount of iron in a larger amount of tannin juice just resulted in a muddier brown color on the jacket I think looks pretty good. I wouldn't try that again, though. After the fact I tried to reproduce a similar color on different scrap fabric and it was basically an ashen black with a lot of sediment.

...I wish I had just emailed you for some advice to begin with, tbh, but it all worked out ok.
 

BandannAlmanac

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2019
Messages
105
Reaction score
171
Thanks, you're right. I didn't wash it afterwards when I did my century denim, though I did leave it out in the sun for several days on a free-rotating hanger to darken. After watching that one video where they paint the century denim, I just thought that was how it is done 🤷‍♂️, especially as the inside of century denim still has undyed/white weft thread. Maybe I was just misinterpreting what may have been yarn dyeing. When I made my mask fabric, I ended up soaking that fabric and subsequently washing it after it dried. Experimenting with different iron compositions, as you said, definitely changed the color of the tannin juice quite a bit, though a small amount of iron in a larger amount of tannin juice just resulted in a muddier brown color on the jacket I think looks pretty good. I wouldn't try that again, though. After the fact I tried to reproduce a similar color on different scrap fabric and it was basically an ashen black with a lot of sediment.

...I wish I had just emailed you for some advice to begin with, tbh, but it all worked out ok.
Of course I would be glad to help, I have seen so many people with orange pants (if they started with white denim) on the internet thinking they could just paint on kakishibu. hahaha. Yeah the Kapital thing is sort of pseudo dyeing its kinda of crazy to do that for free even just with kakishibu painting... also it would be a bad idea to make a demonstration with people getting splashed with kakishibu even small drops end up turning brown. We got a lot of complaints from people a day later after events at Osaka. If you get the real kakishibu it stinks like hell, the odorless one is a bit more easier to work with. Basically they get the job done the same way. Stay away from the powder stuff it is not a reliable method of doing kakishibu. You could experiment with dyeing paper though with painting kakishibu I have done that in the past for tags and stuff. They come out looking really cool.

Yeah iron mordant is no joke, and depending on the source of the iron mordant the iron content may be too strong for cotton and it'll just eat the fibers. I have seen this with vintage bandannas when they used an iron pigment on black lines and after a 100 years or so it just ate through the fibers. I have only worked with Japanese charcoal iron mordant. It smells like a smoke pit...
 
Last edited:

peachfuzzmcgee

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2017
Messages
413
Reaction score
369
You know you are a better man then I because I once set out to do some natural dyeing and went way over my head. Ending up getting pretty weak results, smelling really bad and just overall disappointment. I always wanted to learn more but always felt difficult to do/find the time even with the vast array of information available on the subject online or in books. One day I hope to be able to go check out workshops done by some the smaller studios I've heard of in Japan.

Mexico also has a huge dying tradition that I wish was more protected like the Japanese dying traditions seem to be. I've once seen the process of dying stuff using snails on the coast of Mexico and that was amazing.
 

BandannAlmanac

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2019
Messages
105
Reaction score
171
You know you are a better man then I because I once set out to do some natural dyeing and went way over my head. Ending up getting pretty weak results, smelling really bad and just overall disappointment. I always wanted to learn more but always felt difficult to do/find the time even with the vast array of information available on the subject online or in books. One day I hope to be able to go check out workshops done by some the smaller studios I've heard of in Japan.

Mexico also has a huge dying tradition that I wish was more protected like the Japanese dying traditions seem to be. I've once seen the process of dying stuff using snails on the coast of Mexico and that was amazing.
It actually isn't as difficult as it seems. If you know a little you can do a lot, if you stick to somewhat basic dyes. Just a few calculations necessary, and it is pretty straight forward.
 

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by

Featured Sponsor

Favorite knitwear under jackets/sport coats

  • Crewneck sweater

  • Turtleneck sweater

  • Long-sleeve polo

  • Vest

  • I don't like knitwear worn with jackets/sport coats


Results are only viewable after voting.

Related Threads

Forum statistics

Threads
454,354
Messages
9,840,364
Members
205,278
Latest member
sunnyvalegummies
Top