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I Don't Understand This Atheist Vs. Religion Argument

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Tck13, Jan 30, 2011.

  1. AlmostFullBenefits

    AlmostFullBenefits Senior member

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    Malaria. Throughout history, it has killed more people than religion and atheism combined. Even today, it kills nearly 1 million people each year. And its something we all unite against.
     
  2. Master Milano

    Master Milano Senior member

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    seriously it doesn't even matter.
     
  3. tagutcow

    tagutcow Senior member

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    Malaria. Throughout history, it has killed more people than religion and atheism combined. Even today, it kills nearly 1 million people each year. And its something we all unite against.

    But... but... I can't fight malaria from my computer!
     
  4. imageWIS

    imageWIS Senior member

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    Dawkins is deliberately inflammatory, just gets his name out there so people will buy his books. I doubt he really believes the level of rhetoric he spews, he's basically a real life troll who sells books. I wouldn't think too much about it beyond that.

    Most of the atheists online who spout that type of rhetoric are just angry about their religious upbringing and are trying to find ways to justify their angry after the fact. If you came to your atheism through a reasoned process, rather than anger, there's really no reason to go attacking religion. It won't accomplish anything.

    Really it's a stupid "debate" from both sides, and fairly few rational atheists would indulge in it. The religious side is basically trying to discredit atheism, but they're speaking only to a religious audience.


    [​IMG]
     
  5. Mr. Clean

    Mr. Clean Senior member

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    The argument by theists or creationists always seems to be that Pol Pot, Stalin, etc... have done more damage in the name of Atheism.

    As pointed out before, this is an unsound argument, since atheism is not an ideology or belief system. Thus, it cannot be argued that people do much anything in the "name" of atheism.

    A potentially working argument could be that the absence of religion as a shaping force for morality in a society necessarily or likely gives rise to a system of morals inferior to one derived from religion.
     
  6. Gibonius

    Gibonius Senior member

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    [​IMG]

    Why thou throw wtf? Do we actually think any theists are going to be convinced that God doesn't exist by an atheist ranting and raving about the evils of religion?
     
  7. Mr. Clean

    Mr. Clean Senior member

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    [...] there's really no reason to go attacking religion. It won't accomplish anything.

    Gibonius, people attack religion because they believe it to be a harmful ideology. Whether or not these attacks accomplish anything, the rhetorical struggle between different believe systems should be familiar to you.

    Why thou throw wtf? Do we actually think any theists are going to be convinced that God doesn't exist by an atheist ranting and raving about the evils of religion?

    An atheist discussing the “evils” of religion is part of the discourse mentioned above. I don’t think you can necessarily assume that the purpose of criticizing religion is to convince theists of the non-existence of a god. Obviously, one has nothing to do with the other.

    On the other hand, I think it plausible that some atheists, who also happen to be anti-religious, believe that convincing people of the non-existence of a god, may help limit the influence of religion.
     
  8. Gibonius

    Gibonius Senior member

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    Gibonius, people attack religion because they believe it to be a harmful ideology. Whether or not these attacks accomplish anything, the rhetorical struggle between different believe systems should be familiar to you.
    Certainly I'm familiar with it. That familiarity has informed my idea that such discussions are really rather useless. There are productive religion/atheism discussions, I don't think that is one of them.
    Well, you're not going to convince religious people of either the danger/evil of religion or the non-existence of God by that argument track. It's just a total dead end, religious people might agree that some form of some religion has done bad in the past, but they're pretty much never going to extrapolate that to "my religion today is a harmful force."
    I agree that some atheists may want to help limit the influence of religion. I'm just saying that trying to convince people of the historical damage caused by religion is extraordinarily unlikely to advance that cause. Focusing on fundamental issues of public secular education, Constitutionality, etc, are much more likely to result in some sort of productive debate. Now for people who just want to bash their head against a wall in online "debate" forums, they may not care about having a productive discussion. Their choice, I suppose.
     

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