How much of SF groupthink do you actually follow?

[Fueco]

I don't follow the group think at all... I occasionally dress nice, and want to look nice when I do so.

I discovered the forums while searching for information on labels I found in thrift shops. I'm getting a good education, but you're not going to stop me from wearing what I feel like most of the time: I work in a very casual office, and ride my bike to work much of the time, so I wear stuff that's easy to pack into a messenger bag in the morning.

 

[atoms]

I don't follow the group think at all... ride my bike to work ...I wear stuff that's easy to pack into a messenger bag...

Aww yes, hispter group think

(As a fellow bike rider, I'm trying to be funny, not insulting)

 

[VinnyMac]

good thing that you care enough to tell all of us how much you don't care, 340+ times in just about two months.

Solid.

"I pop in to see pictures of things that I like, and I give my advice/two-cents when I see a particularly provocative topic."

You may be one sartorially splendid s.o.b, but apparently, reading comprehension isn't your go-to move.

 

[yywwyy]



...interesting. That very statement is a by-product of group-think. The assumption is that the "rules" are correct or (at the least) standards. You have to believe that to acknowledge that there's a right and wrong way to break them.

I don't (think that I) subscribe to much SF group-think simply because I don't care about most of the things discussed here. I'm more of a recreational user. I pop in to see pictures of things that I like, and I give my advice/two-cents when I see a particularly provocative topic. Still, there's not much written here that gets through to me because I just don't care enough.

What you've described is what the average SF member does. Noone really cares enough to go all-out bonkers or anything... You care enough to post and for some things that catch your attention. Also, thinking that there are rules is not the same as group-think.

 

[Ivar]



I can't really subscribe to the sentiments in either of the above posts as they are inapposite. It would be one thing, if the SF audience was like Manton's hypothetical foodies, who presumably come from a variety of backgrounds that draw from different experiences but still reach some agreement about what "good" is. However, my sense is that many SF posters have recently taken on clothing as a serious pursuit and much, if not most, of what they know comes from this forum. In such cases, the forum serves as echo chamber in which opinions are self-validated, particularly when they are expressed by those with a little bit of experience and a lot of self-confidence.

A valid objection, but Manton was specifically referring to people with a certain level of sartorial experience and integrity (let's leave aside for the moment that this group is hard to define), noting that this group's taste in clothing seemed to converge in a way that you would not expect of a group of randomly selected men. He doesn't deny that groupthink exists or that people are always influenced by one another, nor does he claim that the composition of posters on Styleforum is such that his argument applies here. What he means to say is simply that for the group he has in mind, the convergence might not solely be due to conformism or aspiration or whatever. Rather, it might reflect that great knowledge of something -- ceteris paribus -- leads your taste in a certain direction.

The truth is, there is lots of room for honest disagreement about clothing, even by those in the know. There are many, myself included, who like a drapey, soft shoulder look. However, there are others very knowledgable about clothing, including Gay Talese for example, who equally despise the look.

Yes, people experienced in these matters do disagree, but on balance, I think their taste in clothing -- howsoever disparate it is -- is still more uniform than for guys who're just starting out, let alone guys who aren't into clothes.

 

[etkl]

I don't really disagree with much of what you say but I do find a degree of rigidity from more than a few posters that comes from a lack of depth and breadth of experience.

 

[poorsod]



I don't really disagree with much of what you say but I do find a degree of rigidity from more than a few posters that comes from a lack of depth and breadth of experience.

It depends on the source. I consider Manton's dogma differently than just about anyone else. Also, I consider advise from pros like Despos and jeffeyd differently than amateurs.

Not all advise is useful and there can be quite a lot of dreck to sift through.

 

[morrison13]

I have to admit, I do consider what the group think says but at the end of the day, I still wear what I want to wear.

 

[Shirtmaven]



Just curious, has anyone ever ordered my crazy button-down collar?

yes! last week.. and using the Old Thom Browne fabric as well.
don't worry, you will look much better in your shirt!

 

[CrimsonSox]

Agree with groupthink:

1. Grenadines are gorgeous ties.
2. No black suits.
3. Solid navies and charcoals for first suits.
4. Fused suits are to be avoided.
5. Corrected grain leather is to shoes what fusing is to suits.
6. I like blue shirts.

Disagree with groupthink:

1. I like white shirts.
2. Cuffs should be a classic 1.5 inches wide, not 2 inches.
3. Not everything should be slim. Most suit pants would look better fuller and with a higher rise.
4. Pants should have a slight break.
5. I have an aversion to wool ties.
6. I never wear earth toned ties (green, orange, yellow, brown, tan) with navy or grey suits or jackets (though I will wear those ties with tweed).
7. Pocket squares are distracting, except for white linen at times.
8. People always say, "why don't you spend the money on bespoke," but then they overlook all the threads on bespoke not fitting well, customers changing tailors, tailors disappearing, and firms ignoring repeated requests from clients on the design of the suit. Bespoke can be peerlessly beautiful, but it can also be an expensive disappointment if the right firm is not selected.
9. I like and wear natural shoulders, but structured shoulders can look better on some men, if made well.
10. It's not a criticism for an outfit to be boring, but a compliment. A tuxedo has only two colors, both solids.

 

[conradwu]

I don't find grenadine ties that special anymore. In fact I find them quite boring and over-hyped.

 

[gimmeabreak]

After much experimentation, I concluded that the consensus on jacket sleeves is way, way too short for my taste. While it admittedly looks... okay if you just stand in front of a mirror, I just got tired of sleeves riding up my arms, so now all my sleeves go slightly past the wrist crease and into the palm, and it's fine.

Other than that, I could have saves myself a lot of time, if I had adopted the mafoofan ways early on - after several years of ultimately wasted time, I realized that his uniform is indeed ideal, and that's all i have now

 

[FlyingMonkey]

After much experimentation, I concluded that the consensus on jacket sleeves is way, way too short for my taste. While it admittedly looks... okay if you just stand in front of a mirror, I just got tired of sleeves riding up my arms, so now all my sleeves go slightly past the wrist crease and into the palm, and it's fine.

This is more like the traditional British cut - where you show very little, if any, shirt cuff. I like this on some suits, mainly the lighter coloured ones, where the contrast with a shirt is less onvious anyway, and less on others, particularly darker suits. But even on the latter, I prefer a maximum of 1cm of cuff to show, and usually about 0.5cm.

 

[ImTheGroom]



I think someone needs to post the definition of group think; then we can have some proper responses.

I use the term groupthink as a quick and easy way to refer to the mode of thinking that persons engage in when concurrence-seeking becomes so dominant in a cohesive ingroup that it tends to override realistic appraisal of alternative courses of action. ~ Irving Janis

 

[size 38R]

"Groupthink"
= an individual is intelligent/self aware and can make choices,but a large group?- are unable as individuals to break out and make individual choices.

groupthink is what i like to call a "Style inhibitor" akin to a school uniform when we were young. when we dress in a uniformed appearance, replicating each-other. we lose not only our unique style, but also our imagination to come up with new looks. thereby creating a circle to be inside, but none outside. in direct opposition to the exploration of style as a concept.

Remember, we Styleforum members set ourselves apart from the other men around us. we do not conform, we set a precedent for being men who have high self standards. in the real world, we look different, so why be conformist and look the same as others on here??

I have already seen noobs adopt grouthink, and fail miserably. style comes from individual choices, and custom tutiledge. with nods to frame, complexion, eye color, hair color,height, and weight. also personal taste.

what looks good on man "A", might not look good on man"B". and if man "C" is wearing the exact same thing as A and B, well none of them stand out as looking particularly good. so the man who actually looks good in said fit has lost his "Uniqueness" , and in a sea of simillar fits, can no longer be immediately recognized as "Stylish" . To an untrained eye? - they all look the same. individual style has been crushed by groupthink. And an increasing environment where the safest choice is the best? implies that style has peaked, and can no longer be advanced. and that would be a shame for all of us.

what i wear is not an example of naivity, rather a complete rejection of groupthink. and an odyssey in the development of a personal style.
this is my honest belief, take it or leave it, individuality in the advancement of personal style is why i joined this forum .