Gucci denim

[Renault78law]

Is there anything interesting to know about Gucci jeans? I'm referring to construction and materials. I just wonder if there is anything defensible about asking for $435 for jeans. No doubt they're not worth that much, but are they higher quality than your run of the mill premium denim brands?

 

[LA Guy]

Both the denim and construction quality are top notch. However, they aren't any better than any of the better denim companies. Actually, I would say that of the true *designer* denim, only Dolce & Gabbana turn out an arguably better product than say, Earnest Sewn (which, despite it not being my very favorite, is probably the best made jean on the market.) That being said, there *are* brands specializing in denim that are better than even the best premium jeans (Paper Denim, Seven, Nudie, etc...) you can usually find. For that kind of money (well, a little more), get a pair of R by 45RPM.

 

[johnapril]

I bought a pair at Saks for $195 on sale. Pay full price if you really want to...

 

[Renault78law]

naw, I'll hardly pay full price for anything. I picked mine up for $130 at Maxfield Bleu. I have little doubt that the only reason they remained was because they were labeled 50 instead of 34...there were no other 34's in the joint.

 

[Renault78law]

Both the denim and construction quality are top notch.  However, they aren't any better than any of the better denim companies.  Actually, I would say that of the true *designer* denim, only Dolce & Gabbana turn out an arguably better product than say, Earnest Sewn (which, despite it not being my very favorite, is probably the best made jean on the market.)  That being said, there *are* brands specializing in denim that are better than even the best premium jeans (Paper Denim, Seven, Nudie, etc...) you can usually find.  For that kind of money (well, a little more), get a pair of R by 45RPM.

thank you for your comments.

 

[johnapril]

naw, I'll hardly pay full price for anything.  I picked mine up for $130 at Maxfield Bleu.  I have little doubt that the only reason they remained was because they were labeled 50 instead of 34...there were no other 34's in the joint.

I had the same experience with the ones I bought and wondered the same thing. Sometimes this whole thing is crazy luck.

 

[LA Guy]

naw, I'll hardly pay full price for anything. I picked mine up for $130 at Maxfield Bleu. I have little doubt that the only reason they remained was because they were labeled 50 instead of 34...there were no other 34's in the joint.

I think that you were just lucky. The guys who know to shop at Maxfield Bleu generally know the American, Italian, French, and whatever else sizing system there is.

 

[@riss]

LA Guy, I give you your respect for breaking out the 45RPM knowledge. Until now I would have thought that type of talk was reserved for the SuperFuture forums. Also, for a more popular, high-quality brand, Evisu still seems to get a lot of respect in terms of selvedge and wash, etc. Anyway, for real denim heads, Gucci and D&G (let alone pdc) and the like are a joke--none of these companies are handspinning the cotton on vintage looms and using real indigo, etc...

 

[@riss]

actually, i'm not sure what pdc's manufacturing process is, they may use real indigo.  however, the denim is decidedly lower in quality than Evisu's and 45RPM is way beyond them both.

 

[T4phage]

LA Guy, I give you your respect for breaking out the 45RPM knowledge.  Until now I would have thought that type of talk was reserved for the SuperFuture forums.  Also, for a more popular, high-quality brand, Evisu still seems to get a lot of respect in terms of selvedge and wash, etc.  Anyway, for real denim heads, Gucci and D&G (let alone pdc) and the like are a joke--none of these companies are handspinning the cotton on vintage looms and using real indigo, etc...

@riss: I don't think any of the denim makers actually "handspins" the cotton.... do you realize what that means?

Also, I have yet to see a 45RPM denim made with authentic indigo denim, that is, the original vegetal indigo (from plants, not chemicals) - the colour is totally totally different. The only ones I have seen using original vegatal indigo is Nudie.

I also like Evisu, and their denim/hemp blend is quite nice for hot weather. Another Japanese brand I would endorse is Denime, who makes replicas of vintage Levis and Lees.

 

[LA Guy]

actually, i'm not sure what pdc's manufacturing process is, they may use real indigo. however, the denim is decidedly lower in quality than Evisu's and 45RPM is way beyond them both.

I personally think that Paper Denim and Earnest Sewn have better products than Evisu, but I'm one of the rare denim guys who prefers Italian over Japanese denim, so there it is.

In terms of styling, I actually prefer Denime over Evisu (have never really been a huge fan) and Edwin's raw selvedge denim over either company.

The real problem I have with Japanese, and to a lesser extent, European denim companies is that they are so enamored with the whole "authenticity" and "original make" thing that the lose sight of what's important - jeans that fit well and look good. I mean, who cares if the denim was handloomed or is selvedge unless it really adds character (in the first case) or durability (in the second case). Same goes for vegetal indigo. Sure, denim was originally treated with real indigo, but if you are going for a sixties or seventies feel, why would you want to go with real indigo rather than a synthetic dye? To me, it's no different than the guys who are into the minutae of suit making - sometimes it matters. Most of the time, it matters not.

 

[LA Guy]

Oh, and @riss, I read the Superforums occasionally (never participate - one forum is enough) and that ring ring guy knows his stuff. I'm sorta surprised that he doesn't know about US laundries though. Most of the premium US companies, from Paper Denim to True Religion to Earnest Sewn use US (specifically L.A. based) laundries, and I think that except for whoever does Nudie's washes, they are lightyears ahead of the competition.

Also, I disagree with Ring Ring's assessment of denim weights. I prefer medium weight rather than a lightweight denim. While standard 14 ounce denim is great for durability (and yes, *authenticity*) it can make for a cumbersome jean. On the other hand, eight to ten ounce denim can feel a little flimsy. I prefer 10.5-13 ounce denims myself. Most of the better companies (and just because they are ubiquitous doesn't mean they suck. Usually it means they have a good product that caught on) use denim in this weight range for men's jeans.

 

[Renault78law]

Very cool discussion, fellas. I know how limiting lists can be, but given that I've never heard of many of these brands you've mentioned, I'd love to see a list of makers, perhaps categorized in tiers with comments? I'm no denim head, but would love to learn more about it. Very much appreciated.

 

[norcaltransplant]

EDIT: Deleted

 

[@riss]

@riss: I don't think any of the denim makers actually "handspins" the cotton.... do you realize what that means?

Also, I have yet to see a 45RPM denim made with authentic indigo denim, that is, the original vegetal indigo (from plants, not chemicals) - the colour is totally totally different.  The only ones I have seen using original vegatal indigo is Nudie.

T4, this is from another website and it is posted by someone who gets a bit deeper into the denim game than I do, but it addresses both points I quoted you on and seems to generally be the consensus on SuperFuture, a message board with members who can get extremely serious about this kind of thing. 45rpm is made this way.

"True premium denim in many instances is made from zimbabwe cotton, which is usually considered the best in the world. This cotton is refined into a thread that often has been hand dyed using organic vegetable pigments (true indigo). This is a relatively long and painstaking process usually done by hand, particularly when done following traditional methods such as using clay vats kept out doors. The number of times the cotton is dipped and what pigments used define the base color of the denim, and most the time involves multiple trips into the vat, often with substantial drying times between dips. This cotton is eventually used to create the selvedge denim, by being woven on machines often dating back to the 1940's or earlier to achieve the traditional selvege denim. Depending on how much coarsness (character) they're trying to achive in the fabric, they'll slow the machine down further, but due to the limits of the equipment and the desire for a relatively specific uniqueness achieved from a hands on process, the look (character) is sometimes specific even to the individual batch being made. These machines generally aren't (and usually can't) be run fast enough to make enough fabric for more than a niche brand. Further, the machines are getting increasingly rare since their re-built/overhauled vintage machines. By automating the process, you're cutting out alot of what defines the denim and what arguably gives it it's unique character. Further, changing the process severely affects the way the denim wears over time, particulalrly using synthetic dyes over natural ones. Part of what's so great about buying denim from a brand like 45rpm is how the color of the denim gets more texture and character over time, as pigments from the various ingredients bleed, run, and fade emphasizing imperfections from the crude methods used to weave the fabric, or the fact that no two are alike. "