Gucci denim

[@riss]

@riss: I don't think any of the denim makers actually "handspins" the cotton.... do you realize what that means?

Also, I have yet to see a 45RPM denim made with authentic indigo denim, that is, the original vegetal indigo (from plants, not chemicals) - the colour is totally totally different.  The only ones I have seen using original vegatal indigo is Nudie.

You're right, its not a handloom, I misspoke. This is a very hands-on process and the fabric is hand-dipped, but the actual looms are machines. I should be more precise.

However, you are wrong that some of these extremely high-end brands are not using real indigo. And yes, I do know that indigo is from plants, not from chemicals.

 

[@riss]

Oh, and @riss, I read the Superforums occasionally (never participate - one forum is enough) and that ring ring guy knows his stuff.  I'm sorta surprised that he doesn't know about US laundries though.  Most of the premium US companies, from Paper Denim to True Religion to Earnest Sewn use US (specifically L.A. based) laundries, and I think that except for whoever does Nudie's washes, they are lightyears ahead of the competition.

Also, I disagree with Ring Ring's assessment of denim weights.  I prefer medium weight rather than a lightweight denim.  While standard 14 ounce denim is great for durability (and yes, *authenticity*) it can make for a cumbersome jean.  On the other hand, eight to ten ounce denim can feel a little flimsy.  I prefer 10.5-13 ounce denims myself.  Most of the better companies (and just because they are ubiquitous doesn't mean they suck.  Usually it means they have a good product that caught on) use denim in this weight range for men's jeans.

Yeah, some of those guys really do know their stuff, although I'm usually on there for the sneaker-related topics. I just can't get that into Bathing Ape, Headporter or Supreme, etc...

I've heard it argued that US laundries can be as good as Japanese and Italian, or even better, but that's definitely been the minority view, in my experience. There's also something about the Japanese denim that people seem to fetishize. I agree with you though, ultimately, what matters most in an article of clothing is the fit. Most Evisu's don't fit the way i want to wear my jeans. However, I have seen instances in Paris and London, where kids pull them off with a blazer and some high-tops and they fit perfectly. 45rpm though is on another level in terms of high end material. I've never seen better denim than that, but I also just probably would never drop $800+ on a pair of jeans.

(T4Phage, where are you seeing 45rpm jeans in the Hague?) Are 45rpms sold anywhere else than at the boutique in Soho or in Japan?

 

[drizzt3117]

I'm not a big fan of Evisu, or the vintage look in general. I like PDC and Earnest Sewn quite a bit because they have fairly natural looking washes while maintaining a nice fit, durability is a bit of an issue, but I have quite a few pairs of premium jeans and I think overall it's not quite as large a concern for me as it may be for others, I rotate between four pairs of PDC GTO-03 3 years for the most part, with a few other pairs I wear to go out, etc.

I realize that unfinished denim may be the newest trend out there, but it's not one that I really enjoy.

 

[@riss]

ok, to put this to rest, here's a better quote (you can find this thread at Superfuture.com, in the supershopper category by doing a search for "denim&quot in regard to 45rpm jeans. you are wrong, T4phage. Again, I don't know how you presume to know so much about 45rpm's if you are in the Hague, unless you've been to the store in Soho. But if you were at the store you should know this already.

"Was in the SoHo 45rpm store recently. Cool space. Lovely staff. Their denim is without a doubt the nicest I've seen, but at $380 for ready to wear / $750-$1,000 made to measure you'd want to be pretty f*cking serious about your jeans. All their denim seems to be thread dyed and woven on antique looms, but apparently only natural indigo dye is used on the denim for the made to measure range. On the two-year wash this produced the most perfect pair of jeans I think I've ever seen."

 

[Brian SD]

but apparently only natural indigo dye is used on the denim for the made to measure range.

Obviously if he cannot go to the boutique, he cannot see the made to measure jeans, which, according to your quote, are the jeans that have the natural indigo dye.

 

[@riss]

right, which is why he shouldn't have declared that 45rpm's are "NOT" made with indigo if he could not verify said claim.

 

[jcusey]

ok, to put this to rest, here's a better quote (you can find this thread at Superfuture.com, in the supershopper category by doing a search for "denim") in regard to 45rpm jeans. you are wrong, T4phage.

Even if the person whom you quote is correct, only the bespoke jeans from 45rpm use vegetable dyes. The RTW ones don't. Which variety do you think predominate in retail establishments?

Again, I don't know how you presume to know so much about 45rpm's if you are in the Hague, unless you've been to the store in Soho. But if you were at the store you should know this already.

I hear that the Dutch authorities will, from time to time, will allow residents of the Hague to leave the city and that the French authorities do not prevent all Dutch travellers from entering the country. Therefore, it seems possible that T4phage has visited, oh, I don't know, maybe the Paris store. Regardless, your assumption that anyone who had ever visited the store would know that the bespoke jeans use vegetable dyes is ridiculous, and your tone is reprehensible. If you had a shred of decency, you would apologize now.

 

[@riss]

jcusey, how is your tone gentlemanly? none of the styles predominate in retail establishments, its a very small niche brand. they don't do bespoke, though, they do mtm. i didn't know there was a paris store, but if you would have read the entire thread I ASKED IF ANYONE KNEW IF THERE WAS ANYWHERE ELSE ONE COULD GET THEM OTHER THAN NYC OR JAPAN. obviously there is another place, thank you for inadvertently answering my question. when i was living in france last year i used to frequent the rue Saint-Honore area going to Colette and I never saw it, so perhaps it is new, or perhaps i am blind. Why does anybody owe anyone an apology--people quibble on this site all day, everyday.

 

[jcusey]

jcusey, how is your tone gentlemanly?

My tone was amply justified by yours:

Again, I don't know how you presume to know so much about 45rpm's if you are in the Hague, unless you've been to the store in Soho. But if you were at the store you should know this already.

If you decide to make a remarkably snotty comment, it shouldn't surprise you when others respond in kind.

Why does anybody owe anyone an apology--people quibble on this site all day, everyday.

True, very true. But it's not every day that someone asks another how he "presumes to know so much" about a topic.

 

[LA Guy]

Guns down gentlemen. Let's all step away from the weapons and drink ourselves drunk on bad rum and worse whiskey.

 

[jcusey]

Let's all step away from the weapons and drink ourselves drunk on bad rum and worse whiskey.

No. Absolutely not. I demand quality stuff, not rotgut.

 

[LA Guy]

No. Absolutely not. I demand quality stuff, not rotgut.

Hey, I'm an junior academic, so unless you're buying, liver killer it is.

 

[T4phage]

Thanks Jcusey for answering whilst I was asleep.

@riss, Jcusey is correct, I bought them in Paris. As to how I know that the 45's are not vegetable indigo, I have 3 pairs, and these are 100% not vegetal indigo.

 

[T4phage]

ok, to put this to rest, here's a better quote (you can find this thread at Superfuture.com, in the supershopper category by doing a search for "denim") in regard to 45rpm jeans. Â you are wrong, T4phage. Â Again, I don't know how you presume to know so much about 45rpm's if you are in the Hague, unless you've been to the store in Soho. Â But if you were at the store you should know this already. Â "Was in the SoHo 45rpm store recently. Cool space. Lovely staff. Their denim is without a doubt the nicest I've seen, but at $380 for ready to wear / $750-$1,000 made to measure you'd want to be pretty f*cking serious about your jeans. All their denim seems to be thread dyed and woven on antique looms, but apparently only natural indigo dye is used on the denim for the made to measure range. On the two-year wash this produced the most perfect pair of jeans I think I've ever seen."

Do you know what vegetable indigo dyed fabric looks like? It is nothing like the standard blue jeans, nothing at all, it is very much a lighter colour. As for your comments regarding where I am and how I "presume" to know, well we Europeans do travel as Jcusey points out, and not everything is located in the U.S.

btw. why do you always get so het up?

 

[T4phage]

Originally posted by LA Guy:

...... The real problem I have with Japanese, and to a lesser extent, European denim companies is that they are so enamored with the whole "authenticity" and "original make" thing that the lose sight of what's important - jeans that fit well and look good. I mean, who cares if the denim was handloomed or is selvedge unless it really adds character (in the first case) or durability (in the second case). Same goes for vegetal indigo. Sure, denim was originally treated with real indigo, but if you are going for a sixties or seventies feel, why would you want to go with real indigo rather than a synthetic dye? To me, it's no different than the guys who are into the minutae of suit making - sometimes it matters. Most of the time, it matters not.

Personally I love the 'older' fits, say the 1947 Levis, that is why I love the way the Japanese, especially Denime, cut thier jeans. Thank goodness that Levis has come to their senses and started their Vintage line to try and recapture 'thier' market. As for denim weights, I generally like them all, and the 14oz do get softer with age.... when I first tried jeans that heavy, I thought I was wearing sandpaper cardboard.

But after awhile it softens and wears incredibly well. p.s. I dislike Edwin jeans