Going bespoke

[johnnynorman3]

I have pretty much made up my mind to get a bespoke suit done by a local tailor here in Cambridge. I was speaking with him a few days ago, and he was showing me some of his work compared with an OTR Kiton he was working on and with the Oxxford I brought to him for some repair work. I was very, very impressed. At $1595 for a Loro Piana fabric (the English ones are just a bit too high priced for my taste, and the tailor thinks the distinction between Italian and English fabrics are minimal nowadays), I think this is an incredibly good price considering the workmanship he does (almost everything is by hand).

So, as for the jacket, I'm thinking of going high two-button single breatsted, higher-gorge notch lapels (should I go on the slimmer side, or wider side, or standard?), sloped shoulder with very little padding and some roping at the sleeve head (think Brioni with a more sloped shoulder). Double vented of course. Flapped pockets. Pick stitching. Anything else I should consider on the jacket?

As for pants, I'm thinking of a slightly lower rise, slightly slimmer fit through the seat, but with a full cut at the cuffs (i.e. straight legged). I'm debating flat front v. pleats, and am thinking that a single forward pleat might be a unique detail that splits the difference between the two styles. Thoughts?

As for fabric, I was really like the Loro Piana "Winter Classics," not so aptly named -- they are 120s in a 10 oz. weight that should be good for 3 seasons at least. I was looking at a charcoal with very narrowly spaced fine pinstripes in a medium grey. Pattern -- but not the fabric -- resembles that Congressman suit on Polo.com. Any other suggestions? I want something young and stylish, but don't want to get so crazy that it can't be a staple in my business wardrobe.

 

[matadorpoeta]

one detail i always notice is the dimension of the cuff. i have small wrists and really think this often overlooked detail can really make a big difference. the bespoke look really requires a tapered sleeve.

i choose standard width lapels, and always go with single-pleated suit pants, no cuffs.

please show pics when the suit is done and tell us the name of this tailor.

 

[johnapril]

If you wear a gun on your ankle, don't go for a full break on the pants.

 

[Manton]

lapels (should I go on the slimmer side, or wider side, or standard?)

Depends. What's your height and build? Also, how loose do you think the coat will be? You say you're asking for straight cut trousers, which are likely to end up rather full, so the coat should complement that. Which means medium lapels at least.

As for pants, I'm thinking of a slightly lower rise, slightly slimmer fit through the seat, but with a full cut at the cuffs (i.e. straight legged). I'm debating flat front v. pleats, and am thinking that a single forward pleat might be a unique detail that splits the difference between the two styles. Thoughts?

Honestly, this sounds odd to me. Low rise trousers with a slim seat and full legs are likely going to look out of proportion. You probably want low rise trousers because you wear belts, not suspenders; fair enough. Think about a little taper.

Single forward pleats are fine, but double reverse also looks good -- arguably better -- with low rise trousers.

The cloth sounds good. I assume you already have a basic blue and a basic gray.

 

[tdial]

First off, that is an excellent price for a bespoke suit, even if the work is farmed.

Here are the details I asked for (in addition to what you already have) and duplicated by my tailor on the suit (and now jacket) he made for me:

-higher and narrower arm holes
-tapered arms (this really looks elegant, especially with your less padded shoulder line)
-pick stitching (handwork) on lapels, breast pocket, and waist pockets. On pants, around the pockets and zipper.
-some like the split back on the pants. With the fuller cut you seem to be wanting, this would be very attractive.
-hand sewn button holes throughout (it will cost a little more)
-working button holes, of course
-pick out an attractive color for the lining. I picked out a rich burgundy color, which is very nice with the navy colored wool
-I had a ticket pocket placed on mine, which I know will be debated. It gave the suit a less formal look, but I think it was a nice touch, and I actually use it.

Those are just my suggestions. I'm not the bespoke maven others are, and I'm sure others will have a lot more excellent suggestion.

 

[LA Guy]

Hey Johnnynorman,

I bet you're talking about Rizzo's. I don't have money for his work, but I have seen it, and it is really phenomenal. After you PM me, I may have some suggestions based on your general appearance. I did some personal stylist stuff while in L.A., and while I never worked with tre bespoke (which I think Rizzo's is), I have recommended some MTM details - to good results, if I say so myself.

I prefer, for a professional but younger suit, flat front pants of medium fullness, but not completely straightlegged unless you are slip-slim. A bit of taper is much more flattering on most body types. A full leg may look good on jeans, cords, and moleskins, but can look bulky and awkward on pants with a good drape. A cuff is optional, but for a lower rise flat front pant, I would not recommend them. I would, however, strongly recommend a half break, though some tailors hate that term.

 

[Manton]

-higher and narrower arm holes
-tapered arms (this really looks elegant, especially with your less padded shoulder line)
-pick stitching (handwork) on lapels, breast pocket, and waist pockets. On pants, around the pockets and zipper.
-hand sewn button holes throughout (it will cost a little more)
-working button holes, of course

These should all be par for the course for a good bespoke suit, but it doesn't hurt to make sure.

-some like the split back on the pants. With the fuller cut you seem to be wanting, this would be very attractive.

I disagree. It doesn't work well on low rise trousers.

-I had a ticket pocket placed on mine, which I know will be debated. It gave the suit a less formal look, but I think it was a nice touch, and I actually use it.

It sounds to me like you are going for a leaner, more youthful silhouette. In that case, I'd skip the ticket pocket.

You might want to try a "2 1/2" button stance.

 

[LA Guy]

I agree completely with Manton's comments and suggestions.

 

[AlanC]

You might want to try a "2 1/2" button stance.

As per the AmTrad threads at AA, I know this is standard to the sack. How common is it in more structured styles? I prefer it to the standard 3-button look.

 

[Manton]

Quote:

(Manton @ Jan. 17 2005,18:50) You might want to try a "2 1/2" button stance.
As per the AmTrad threads at AA, I know this is standard to the sack. How common is it in more structured styles? I prefer it to the standard 3-button look.
The upper-end Italians make a lot of 2 1/2 coats, but they do it differently. The American/Trad way is simply to cut a 2-button coat and add an extra button. The extra "idle" button remains hidden behind the rolled lapel; on the other side, you can see maybe half of the extra buttonhole. On a true "2 1/2" or "roll through" coat, the lapel roll does not so much end as just sort of disipate. Rather than looking "folded over" right above the waist button, the lapel edge almost stands straight out. The lapel roll is much more gradual; the line of the lapel is longer than on a true 3-button, but somewhat shorter than a 2-button. You can see the upper idle button and buttonhole pretty clearly. Also, the coat above the waist button is open enough that trying to button the top button would really pull and strain the chest. This is the Italian way.

 

[uriahheep]

The upper-end Italians make a lot of 2 1/2 coats, but they do it differently. The American/Trad way is simply to cut a 2-button coat and add an extra button. The extra "idle" button remains hidden behind the rolled lapel; on the other side, you can see maybe half of the extra buttonhole.

On a true "2 1/2" or "roll through" coat, the lapel roll does not so much end as just sort of disipate. Rather than looking "folded over" right above the waist button, the lapel edge almost stands straight out. The lapel roll is much more gradual; the line of the lapel is longer than on a true 3-button, but somewhat shorter than a 2-button. You can see the upper idle button and buttonhole pretty clearly. Also, the coat above the waist button is open enough that trying to button the top button would really pull and strain the chest. This is the Italian way.

I'm pretty sure that Attolini hides the top button on their 3-button jackets. Strange, since that seems to fit American/Trad.

 

[AlanC]

The upper-end Italians make a lot of 2 1/2 coats, but they do it differently....

Manton, fascinating as always.

 

[Manton]

I'm pretty sure that Attolini hides the top button on their 3-button jackets. Â Strange, since that seems to fit American/Trad.

I see what you mean: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws....me=WDVW http://cgi.ebay.com/ws....me=WDVW But that is not really the same as the American/Trad way. Â The roll of the lapels are too gradual. Â To say nothing of the rest of the coats, which are about as far from "trad" as you can get.

 

[uriahheep]

But that is not really the same as the American/Trad way. The roll of the lapels are too gradual. To say nothing of the rest of the coats, which are about as far from "trad" as you can get.

Thanks for pointing out the difference.

 

[Manton]

I looked for a good picture of a J. Press coat or an old Brooks #1 Sack suit, but couldn't find one.