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Going bespoke

johnnynorman3

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Manton, you b----rd. Why did you have to link up that Attolni blazer... [MUST NOT BUY, MUST NOT BUY]. I think I misdescribed the pants I'm going for. I want the pants to sit about 1" below my navel -- not low rise as in casual pants low rise, but a lower rise than I typically find on off the rack suits. What I'm really looking for is to recreate the Belvest flat front odd trousers I picked up at Louis, which have a perfect rise for me if I want the pants to sit 3/4" to 1" below my navel and are slimmer than average in the seat and upper thigh (I have no seat and have non-stocky legs). The only difference is that I want it to be about 1.5" wider through the calf and ankle -- I think straight-legged was probably a misnomer here. My bad. I'm going for about a 17.5 - 18" cuff, I think. For the pants, the idea was to have the cloth not drape so excessively around the crotch area -- it could be I just want an "appropriate rise" as opposed to a low rise. The single foward pleat was so I could have just a little but of fullness in the crease of the pant, which I find looks better both with the jacket and when you have the jacket off wearing a tie, but still keep that cleanness that I'm going for. The forward pleat to me resembles the flat front pants more than does the reverse pleat. So, as you see, what I want is a little leaner silhouette in the pants, without it being too narrow in the lower leg (I just think that cuts down on the elongating properties of the pants if it's too narrow, and I need the elongation since I'm only 5'10"). I don't want a 2 1/2 button -- I like them, but I think it is difficult to execute perfectly and I also just like the look of the high 2 button a bit better. But I do want a lean fit in the shoulders (hence, the reason why I'd like them lightly padded and sloped, which I find leaner in appearance), smaller armholes, and a close fit in the torso. Tapered sleeves is of course going to be the norm here. I'll try to find a picture of what I'm trying to recreate to get comments later. I think I'm going to officially pick a fabric and do a fitting in early February (depending on when I have the courage to tell my wife that I'm spending part of my Christmas bonus on a bespoke suit&#33
. LA Guy, yes this is Rizzo. Had another great conversation with him today, as we were comparing his work to Kiton and Oxxford. Fascinating. The coats I saw him working on were definitely first-rate, and he admits that he could be charging more but doesn't want to. He is an immigrant artist first, in his opinion. He is not a businessman. He showed me how the Kiton label was machine stitched into the inside of the jacket, then showed his label, which was entirely handstitched. I asked him why he did it, and he said because he likes doing things by hand. I asked him how long it took, he said, "Who cares." I saw the Kiton jacket he had altered for someone and I looked at the sleeves and said, "He didn't want working buttonholes." He said, "No, he did . . . look." The handstitching he did on the buttonholes was so fine and incredible that they honestly looked like well-done faux buttonholes. I have little hesitance that he will do an impeccable job over the course of three fittings.
 

matadorpoeta

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I need the elongation since I'm only 5'10"
i'm 5'10" and have never considered myself short or in need of elongation. i wouldn't worry about it.
 

johnnynorman3

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Well, my dad is 6'2" and my brother 6'3", so you know.
 

retronotmetro

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I think I misdescribed the pants I'm going for. Â I want the pants to sit about 1" below my navel -- not low rise as in casual pants low rise, but a lower rise than I typically find on off the rack suits. Â What I'm really looking for is to recreate the Belvest flat front odd trousers I picked up at Louis, which have a perfect rise for me if I want the pants to sit 3/4" to 1" below my navel and are slimmer than average in the seat and upper thigh (I have no seat and have non-stocky legs). Â The only difference is that I want it to be about 1.5" wider through the calf and ankle -- I think straight-legged was probably a misnomer here. Â My bad. Â I'm going for about a 17.5 - 18" cuff, I think. Â For the pants, the idea was to have the cloth not drape so excessively around the crotch area -- it could be I just want an "appropriate rise" as opposed to a low rise. Â The single foward pleat was so I could have just a little but of fullness in the crease of the pant, which I find looks better both with the jacket and when you have the jacket off wearing a tie, but still keep that cleanness that I'm going for. Â The forward pleat to me resembles the flat front pants more than does the reverse pleat.
That sounds like a great pair of pants for a "stylish business" suit. Just different enough to show some personal flair without standing out unduly in a business setting. I've been thinking of getting single forward pleats on my next suit. Oh, and contrary to johnapril's comment, I believe an 18" cuff with a full break is perfect for carrying an ankle holster, since the added length will maximize the concealment if the trousers ride up for any reason. Though you'll want to go with cuffs--the extra weight at the bottom of the trouser will help the pants to drape better and avoid "printing" the holster.
 

A Harris

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LA Guy, yes this is Rizzo.
Had one of his jackets here once, courtesy of a forum member in fact. They are nicely made, not quite Savile Row IMO, but still very nice...
 

Horace

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For the relatively few bespoke togs I've had done, I've gone very conservative with details. (e.g. I've done a very traditional Saville Row cut -- sort of a Sholte in a very heavy flannel and another I had made based on the suit that Grant wore in North by Northwest).

So, doing something discreet might be something to consider, as you're going to have it forever, presumably.
 

chorse123

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I think you may be better off with a flat front, even if it's only an inch below your navel. I think even a single pleat may look--for lack of a better term--puffy. But what do I know...

Be sure to keep us up to date on the project. This is a fascinating post.
 

Manton

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johnnynorman3: the pants you describe sound fine, perfect for the look you are going for.  I think a 17.5" cuff (or bottom, if uncuffed) will be fine.

I would advise you, when you go in to get measured, to wear the Belvest pants you like, tell the tailor what you like about them, and have him measure you in them.  Not that you necessarily want them copied, but it will help him get the idea of the rise and crutch measurements that you want.
 

johnnynorman3

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Well, I'm not going to pick a fabric and get measured until probably first week of February. I'm sort of mulling over a couple of fabric options, and Joe wants to wait to measure me until he gets back from the vacation he takes the last week of January. He says better to let me stew over details for the next couple of weeks. I think it will be a two-month process after that probably -- he's had a lot of orders put in lately he said (and showed me the fabric to prove it.).
 

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