Foo shops for a Japanese knife

[dopey]



In Japanese knives that would be referred to as a 'Hamaguri' edge, or the strongest of the edges, the strength of the edge was originally discovered by the early Swordsmiths. A truly flat bevel is sharper, but 'Hamaguri' is the strongest.

It's not easy to maintain by any means because of the temptation to go ever steeper everytime you sharpen.

However, there are probably more people with single bevel knives that are actually in the Hamaguri shape than those who actually have a flat bevel, which is difficult to maintain freehand. So I think the best coarse of action is to create a flat bevel and maintain it by hand, over time it becomes a convex bevel.

Which is the best edge for cutting a carrot or potato?
What would be really useful would be a photo-essay showing, in close-up, the difference between vegetables cut with a single bevel edge, flat edge or convex edge.

 

[SkinnyGoomba]

This isnt specific to kitchen knives, it's knowledge acquired to cutting wood with hand tools. However, the shapes and results are all the same.

For wood, the bevel preferred for paring is a flat bevel and that preferred for chopping is a convex bevel. For onions...probably the same.

 

[otc]

I would think a flat grind (or a 2 stage flat where the very edge is shallower for durability) is ideal for the SFer's fancy kitchen knife.

They are much easier to take care of...a few passes on a flat stone will clean them up, and they are sharp. No need to futz with things like sandpaper on a mousepad or compound on soft leather to try and get a convex edge.

I believe victorinox uses a convex grind on swiss army knives for the durability. Most purchasers may never sharpen the knife, and with the convex edge, they will have a reputation for the "real" swiss army knives lasting much longer and thus being "sharper" than the cheapo pocket knives.

 

[foodguy]



Which is the best edge for cutting a carrot or potato?
What would be really useful would be a photo-essay showing, in close-up, the difference between vegetables cut with a single bevel edge, flat edge or convex edge.

any sharp knife. i've used most of them, single-bevel gyuotos are thinner and feel more "exact" but cutting vegetables? it's like asking which ferrari is best for driving the 405. unless you're doing mgm/saintedmatt style stuff, you'll never notice the difference.
speaking of which .... i am confident all you gents are going to spend at least as much time learning to cook as you are obsessing over your knives.

 

[itsstillmatt]

The worst knife for cutting a hard vegetable, other than a dull knife, is a thick knife. That means traditional Japanese knives are the worst by far for that particular task. Thin vs thick western knives both have advantages and drawbacks. Eventually it doesn't matter.

 

[Manton]

I can absolutely tell the difference between a gyuto and a German knife, and even between decent, good and really good gyutos. My veg cuts are way better with a very good Japanese knife.

 

[Bounder]



Which is the best edge for cutting a carrot or potato?

Obviously, you cannot use the same knife to cut a potato as you would a carrot. Manton's just trolling you,

 

[foodguy]



The worst knife for cutting a hard vegetable, other than a dull knife, is a thick knife. That means traditional Japanese knives are the worst by far for that particular task. Thin vs thick western knives both have advantages and drawbacks. Eventually it doesn't matter.

I can absolutely tell the difference between a gyuto and a German knife, and even between decent, good and really good gyutos. My veg cuts are way better with a very good Japanese knife.

i don't think matt was talking about gyuotos, but about usubas, which have always seemed to me to be spectacularly unsuited for vegetable cutting (at least in the European fashion).
and i know what you mean about veg cuts being better with a very good Japanese knife. but my argument is that unless you are OCD about getting your dice in perfect 1/8 inch cubes, it's not ... wait a minute, who am I talking to here?

 

[itsstillmatt]



i don't think matt was talking about gyuotos, but about usubas, which have always seemed to me to be spectacularly unsuited for vegetable cutting (at least in the European fashion).
and i know what you mean about veg cuts being better with a very good Japanese knife. but my argument is that unless you are OCD about getting your dice in perfect 1/8 inch cubes, it's not ... wait a minute, who am I talking to here?

Exactly. Actually, I find that if you want 1/8 or whatever, any knife is fine. If you are trying to cut potatoes into 1/2 inch slabs, the thicker knives tend to push on the vegetable too much and crack it. Its the same thing that allows thin slices not to stick to a good German knife, but I don't like the look of the slightly chewed bottom of the potato slab from wedging.

 

[Bounder]

i don't think matt was talking about gyuotos, but about usubas, which have always seemed to me to be spectacularly unsuited for vegetable cutting (at least in the European fashion).
and i know what you mean about veg cuts being better with a very good Japanese knife. but my argument is that unless you are OCD about getting your dice in perfect 1/8 inch cubes, it's not ... wait a minute, who am I talking to here?

Exactly. Actually, I find that if you want 1/8 or whatever, any knife is fine. If you are trying to cut potatoes into 1/2 inch slabs, the thicker knives tend to push on the vegetable too much and crack it. Its the same thing that allows thin slices not to stick to a good German knife, but I don't like the look of the slightly chewed bottom of the potato slab from wedging.

Are you really saying that you are not using an imokiri?

 

[SkinnyGoomba]

Some smiths will allow you to specify a thinner blade, depends on their capabilities.

I've been very tempted to order a Shigfusa thin gyuto. Off the cuff, I think the thin blades are relatively uncommon as they are not as needed for Japanese users.

Shig is like a 1 yr wait, or probably longer at this point....but I really dont care.

 

[dopey]

Taking bets now on how long until the release of the first cookbook that specifies specific knife bevels in each recipe.

 

[SkinnyGoomba]

There are different knives suited to various tasks, same reason I have 3-4 sets of chisels that are for special purposes. I tend to love to jump down the rabbit hole, but in this case I dont see this as being all that out there.

My obsession with 30,000 grit sharpening stones,,,,well all i can say is this

 

[itsstillmatt]



Some smiths will allow you to specify a thinner blade, depends on their capabilities.

I've been very tempted to order a Shigfusa thin gyuto. Off the cuff, I think the thin blades are relatively uncommon as they are not as needed for Japanese users.

Shig is like a 1 yr wait, or probably longer at this point....but I really dont care.

His knives do not require a thinner blade. They are not thin at the top, but behind the edge they are unbelievably so, and I have never had a problem with any food wedging.

 

[Bounder]



Taking bets now on how long until the release of the first cookbook that specifies specific knife bevels in each recipe.

I have never had a problem with any food wedging.

This thread continues to deliver.