First real suit

[bvbellomo]

The Coppley looks far better than anything else you have posted. By a mile. Not perfect, but you could wear that and be OK (color aside). Working with a local shop with an experienced tailor that can help you is exactly the approach you should take. Keep up with that. If this shop does not have other makers/cuts that will work for you, you might need to find another, similar shop with different brands. I will second the suggestion to find a shop that carries Samuelsohn.

I mean no offense, but it seems part of your issue is that you are not used to wearing tailored clothing. It appears that you are used to casual clothes, and the JCrew, while a wrinkled mess, was closer to your comfort zone. Please don't give in. Get something that fits and, while it might take some time, you will get more comfortable with it over time.

Another thought is to look at some less formal patterns. Perhaps a solid navy worsted is not right for your environment in academia. Look at some suits in the stores you try and see if you can find some patterns you think don't make you look like a "stuffed shirt" or at a funeral. As an aside, your first suit is exactly what you will wear to a funeral, so it's ironic, and perhaps problematic, that you don't want your suit to be appropriate for a funeral. The answer might be to get more than one suit, which will still be far cheaper than one bespoke suit. If you wore your last suit for 25 years, you will have no problem getting value from a couple suits over the next 25.

I applaud your effort and diligence, just keep working the problem and you will get a good result.

The Coppley shop carries Samuelsohn, both myself and the owner think Coppley fits me better.

I am not used to tailored clothing, but am not avoiding it. I just feel excess padding adds to how I am already disproportionate, and to a certain extent, excess padding is just bad on anyone. Any suit with that much padding should be sold with a matching football helmet.

I do feel the back and around the belly are a bad fit on the jcrew, but I like the shoulders and chest. Brooks has the nicest back and worst chest, and Coppley is all around okay with a nice lower front.

As I said in my first post on jcrew, I dislike the wrinkles. I can get the same suit in wool, the issue is fit.

I still like the idea of only having 1 suit. But can get away with something far less formal for interviews. Honestly, no one is going to care at a funeral, and my ex wife made me show go in some horrendously bright colors when we were married. Wearing my old black suit and white shirt, I blend in, which is better than standing out at a funeral.

 

[bvbellomo]

I know everyone is trying to steer me towards the Coppley, but I may try a Spier and Mackay, more my style, free to return, less than half the price for full canvas. My only concern are the extreme width of the lapels on the full canvas. Should I order a half canvas just for narrower lapels, when I want wide lapels? Is this a suit I can wear when narrow lapels are back in style?

 

[ultramantaro]

wider lapels around 3 to 3.5 in, in general tend to stay in style longer. They are what most consider the classic look. skinny lapels look great on guys that are super slim, and was popular I believe at some point in the 60s with the dubbed "ivy look" and was made famous again by Hedi Slimane. They are no longer as popular now.

 

[bvbellomo]

Yes, and I want wide lapels, but these are over 4 inches

 

[bvbellomo]

Ordered the full canvas Navy suit. I like the look of the lapels, just worry about them being out of style, but will take that risk. Otherwise, this is exactly my style and what I was looking for, and free to send back if it doesn't work. Coppley isn't going anywhere, and if the Spier Mackay doesn't work, I will be close to summer weight to see if that tailor has different options.

Measuring myself, I came up with 44R jacket and 35 trouser. I know that isn't always the most accurate, but I just need to be sure a 42 is too small and a 46 is too big. I almost ordered a long jacket, but their customer service said most 6 foot tall men wear a regular and my legs are slightly long for someone my height.

I am more comfortable with the pants, as I often order pants online by thigh and waist measurements.

I also wanted to applaud J-Crew for an easy, quick, no hassle return.

 

[bvbellomo]

The suit arrived today. While I might give it more thought, or post some pictures, it is almost certainly going back. A size 44R Spier & Mackay would be a good choice for a man with very broad shoulders, narrow waist and flat chest.

Something this narrow on the waist that lacks material in the chest looks like some sort of chicken or grouse strutting around with his chest puffed up. Losing weight would make the problem worse. A larger jacket might help, but the shoulders are already too wide.

I also requested size 35 pants (drop 9) and was told they were not in stock and I had to pick a 36 or 34. They said they don't vanity size, so I went 36, which ended up being way too big.

The material is nice, and I appreciate being able to send it back without hassle, but I don't think buying sight unseen is for me. I am done until after the pandemic, and then either bespoke or Coppley.

 

[Despos]

Will explain why a 44 jacket won't fit you even though you measure 44. It's how the pattern distributes the cloth over your frame. RTW and MTM patterns are averages. The back width compared to the front widths. When you have a full chest, fullest part of your chest is larger than the average 44 pattern. Your back is more narrow than the actual 44.
You need the front chest panels of a 46 or larger and the back of a 42. You still measure 44 but the front and back allocation of cloth has to be adjusted.
The breaking of the lapel line is caused when the front panels aren't wide enough to cover your chest. If the jacket is canvassed, it has to be worked with darts and an iron to create corresponding shape to cover your chest.
If the suit is fused; forget about it.
No RTW jacket will have the distribution of cloth you need. Not every MTM system will adjust for this properly but some may do better than others.

 

[bvbellomo]

Will explain why a 44 jacket won't fit you even though you measure 44. It's how the pattern distributes the cloth over your frame. RTW and MTM patterns are averages. The back width compared to the front widths. When you have a full chest, fullest part of your chest is larger than the average 44 pattern. Your back is more narrow than the actual 44.
You need the front chest panels of a 46 or larger and the back of a 42. You still measure 44 but the front and back allocation of cloth has to be adjusted.
The breaking of the lapel line is caused when the front panels aren't wide enough to cover your chest. If the jacket is canvassed, it has to be worked with darts and an iron to create corresponding shape to cover your chest.
If the suit is fused; forget about it.
No RTW jacket will have the distribution of cloth you need. Not every MTM system will adjust for this properly but some may do better than others.

With others saying they have similar builds and good luck with Spier and Mackay, and no other opportunities until the coronavirus is gone, I thought I'd take a chance given a no cost return policy.

It is more than just front to back balance - it is also depth to width balance. Even if I had a lot more muscle on my back and less in the front (or if I slumped forward with bad posture), I'd still need the chest of a 46R and the shoulders of a 42R.

 

[Despos]

That's exactly what I explained. Never mentioned front/back balance.

 

[bvbellomo]

I still haven't sent it back. It isn't nearly as bad as my first impression, I like the style so much more than the Copley, and it is less than half the price. I am really on the fence, especially not knowing what some minor tailoring can/can't fix.

The pants go back no matter what. They say they don't vanity size, but these are at least 2 inches bigger than they listed.

 

[stuffedsuperdud]

Dude. Despos is of course the master, but to my untrained eye, this is very nice! You can get a lot worse at a might higher price point, and many fellas on the streets of NYC and DC do just that. The back is a touch messy while the front is bit tight, but this is something my tailor has corrected for me many times; I am no entirely sure what he does, as he just mumbles "open...open...open here....tuck in here...make clean" while marking me up, and then a week later I go back and everything is great. If you have a tailor with the same magic-sauce, I think you'll like the final result.

Re: the pants, if you order a size 46 jacket you're theoretically stuck with a pair of 40 pants, but if you include a note in the order, S&M might be able to swap in a different, smaller pair for you.

 

[dauster]

Dude. Despos is of course the master, but to my untrained eye, this is very nice! You can get a lot worse at a might higher price point, and many fellas on the streets of NYC and DC do just that. The back is a touch messy while the front is bit tight, but this is something my tailor has corrected for me many times; I am no entirely sure what he does, as he just mumbles "open...open...open here....tuck in here...make clean" while marking me up, and then a week later I go back and everything is great. If you have a tailor with the same magic-sauce, I think you'll like the final result.

Re: the pants, if you order a size 46 jacket you're theoretically stuck with a pair of 40 pants, but if you include a note in the order, S&M might be able to swap in a different, smaller pair for you.

I completely disagree. this is how a suit should look like if you don't care and just go into a store and spend zero time thinking about. The OP has spent several weeks/maybe months posting and clearly thinking about it and this is what you think a good result should be?

Looks messy but of course most people anywhere especially in the States don't care so of course nobody will call him out about it but I would say he can do better... There are so many options one can try while also getting a good discount and all of them offer free shipping and returns such as NM Last Call.

 

[stuffedsuperdud]

Have some optimism! Of course it doesn't look 100% right now; I'm saying it's well in the ballpark for a good alterations tailor to dial in, which wasn't the case for, say, that rumpled J.Crew suit. OP's primary struggle so far has been I think the somewhat unreasonable expectation that something off the rack fits great unaltered, which might work if you buy a 40R at 5'11" 180lbs with 18.5" shoulders and a 33" waist, but isn't realistic for the rest of us. I'm saying that this jacket fits in the shoulders, and I like the proportions of the lapel and button stance (sort of. a 46L miiiight be in order) on his frame; a bit of messiness on the front and back panels isn't something to reject an otherwise decent garment over.

 

[dauster]

Have some optimism! Of course it doesn't look 100% right now; I'm saying it's well in the ballpark for a good alterations tailor to dial in, which wasn't the case for, say, that rumpled J.Crew suit. OP's primary struggle so far has been I think the somewhat unreasonable expectation that something off the rack fits great unaltered, which might work if you buy a 40R at 5'11" 180lbs with 18.5" shoulders and a 33" waist, but isn't realistic for the rest of us. I'm saying that this jacket fits in the shoulders, and I like the proportions of the lapel and button stance (sort of. a 46L miiiight be in order) on his frame; a bit of messiness on the front and back panels isn't something to reject an otherwise decent garment over.

fair enough... of course if he is in a crunch for time and/ or really is limited to a budget this will work with $100 -$150 worth of alterations.
but not to be mean, I would feel "stupid" if this was the result I'd end up with after all this posting and research.
but to each it's own... he could probably be CEO in most middle market companies with this suit

 

[bvbellomo]

Dude. Despos is of course the master, but to my untrained eye, this is very nice! You can get a lot worse at a might higher price point, and many fellas on the streets of NYC and DC do just that. The back is a touch messy while the front is bit tight, but this is something my tailor has corrected for me many times; I am no entirely sure what he does, as he just mumbles "open...open...open here....tuck in here...make clean" while marking me up, and then a week later I go back and everything is great. If you have a tailor with the same magic-sauce, I think you'll like the final result.

Re: the pants, if you order a size 46 jacket you're theoretically stuck with a pair of 40 pants, but if you include a note in the order, S&M might be able to swap in a different, smaller pair for you.

Despos gave advice before I posted pics.

A lot comes down to what is fixable and what is not. I know I can do better bespoke, and I know there are worse dressed people out there. The question is how much better can I do off the rack at a price point below where I should be buying bespoke.

For pants, the measurements S&M's listed clearly put me at size 35. They didn't have any, so I asked for a size 36. I should have asked for a 34 or maybe even smaller. I wonder if they made a mistake and didn't swap at all.