Fake (and Ugly!!!) Borrelli ties on eBay

[EL72]

Ugh! These have to be worst looking fake ties I have ever seen. I can't believe anyone who has ever seen (or even vaguely heard of) a Borrelli tie would be fooled by these so I can't believe they will sell at any sort of premium compared to an ugly tie with an italian sounding name. If these sell for over $10, then something's wrong with the world.

http://cgi.ebay.com/BORRELLI-NEW-HAN...QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/BORRELLI-NEW-HAN...QQcmdZViewItem

 

[bachbeet]

That 2nd one's not so bad.

BTW, I did see some really ugly (and way too expensive) kiton slacks on ebay. They were some really loud colrs (orange, red, navy-orange-and other colors plaid/stripe ugly pattern). And, surprise, surprise, no bids.

 

[The False Prophet]

I'm guessing the deal is that there's some other maker out there who's name also happens to be Borrelli. There are seemingly billions of obscure little Italian brands.

They don't appear to be branded Luigi Borrelli, nor does the seller hold them out as such.

So call them ugly, yes (God yes!), but not fake as such.

 

[A Harris]

Yep, if I remember right, a couple of years ago I bought some Borrelli boxer shorts (new, unworn mind you) on ebay and they came with this label. They weren't fake, just not Luigi Borrelli.

 

[Mark Seitelman]

This is a bit misleading in that someone might jump at it thinking that it's a "Luigi Borrelli." However, there is no claim that it was made in Naples by that famous shirtmaking firm, that it costs $175 at full retail, etc.

Fortunately, this is not an out and out counterfeit. I once bought an Hermes tie on eBay, and it was counterfeit even though the seller tried to immitate logos and other signature items. The couterfeiter even went as far as making-up a bogus, orange Hermes box!

 

[Edward Appleby]

Originally Posted by Mark Seitelman

This is a bit misleading in that someone might jump at it thinking that it's a "Luigi Borrelli." However, there is no claim that it was made in Naples by that famous shirtmaking firm, that it costs $175 at full retail, etc.

Fortunately, this is not an out and out counterfeit. I once bought an Hermes tie on eBay, and it was counterfeit even though the seller tried to immitate logos and other signature items. The couterfeiter even went as far as making-up a bogus, orange Hermes box!

You do have to appreciate the effort involved there.

 

[EL72]

I realize the seller is not claiming they are Luigi Borrelli ties but even if not counterfeit, this is infringing on Luigi's trademark. You can't just start making ties and label them Kiton, Zegna, or Carlo Franco for that matter. This is clearly causing confusion in the eyes of the consumer and is thus an illegal trademark infringement.

 

[Edward Appleby]

Originally Posted by EL72

I realize the seller is not claiming they are Luigi Borrelli ties but even if not counterfeit, this is infringing on Luigi's trademark.
Not necessarily. The logo is very, very different, and I believe the Borelli trademark is "Luigi Borrelli", not just "Borrelli."

 

[EL72]

Originally Posted by Edward Appleby

Not necessarily. The logo is very, very different, and I believe the Borelli trademark is "Luigi Borrelli", not just "Borrelli."

I'm not an IP lawyer (though my wife is) but my understanding is that if the name or logo causes confusion in the eyes of an average consumer, then it is infringing on the trademark, irrespective of the exact spelling or specific design.

 

[macuser3of5]

Hey, it worked for Paolo Gucci...

 

[jml90]

Originally Posted by EL72

I'm not an IP lawyer (though my wife is) but my understanding is that if the name or logo causes confusion in the eyes of an average consumer, then it is infringing on the trademark, irrespective of the exact spelling or specific design.
Not saying you're wrong but, if someone witht he last name of Smith open's a company called Smith's; I don't see how you can stop another from doing the same.

 

[summej2]

Originally Posted by The False Prophet

I'm guessing the deal is that there's some other maker out there who's name also happens to be Borrelli. There are seemingly billions of obscure little Italian brands.

They don't appear to be branded Luigi Borrelli, nor does the seller hold them out as such.

So call them ugly, yes (God yes!), but not fake as such.

Yep, I've seen rubber-soled, cheap looking Borrelli shoes too.

 

[EL72]

Originally Posted by jml90

Not saying you're wrong but, if someone witht he last name of Smith open's a company called Smith's; I don't see how you can stop another from doing the same.

Yes, you can. If your Smith's has become world famous for selling handmade ties. Joe Smith cannot, even if his name is also Smith, call another handmade tie company Smith's because that would cause confusion for consumers who could mistake his Smith's for yours. That would be up to a judge to decide of course but the law is very clear AFAIK. If Joe decides to call his dog food company Smith's then there is little risk of consumers mistaking his business for yours, which sells handmade ties, and he would be allowed to call it that.

 

[jml90]

Originally Posted by EL72

Yes, you can. If your Smith's has become world famous for selling handmade ties. Joe Smith cannot, even if his name is also Smith, call another handmade tie company Smith's because that would cause confusion for consumers who could mistake his Smith's for yours. That would be up to a judge to decide of course but the law is very clear AFAIK. If Joe decides to call his dog food company Smith's then there is little risk of consumers mistaking his business for yours, which sells handmade ties, and he would be allowed to call it that.
Interesting

 

[bryce330]

Originally Posted by EL72

I'm not an IP lawyer (though my wife is) but my understanding is that if the name or logo causes confusion in the eyes of an average consumer, then it is infringing on the trademark, irrespective of the exact spelling or specific design.
I am also an IP lawyer, and while the test is indeed whether consumers are likely to be confused, there are a number of factors to be considered, including the sophistication of the relevant consumers. In this case, the makers of "fake" Borrelli would have a reasonable argument that consumers who are in the market for $400 Borrelli shirts (i.e. the members of this forum) are sophisticated enough to immediately realize that the "fake" Borrelli ties are not produced by Luigi Borrelli, particularly given the differences between the logos. This thread piqued my interest so I did a quick search on the PTO website - Luigi Borrelli's only trademark registration is for the mark LUIGI BORRELLI NAPOLI (although they would have common law rights in the mark BORRELLI). However, a company called Design-Italia LLC filed an application for BORRELLI HAND-STITCHED, which was refused registration based on the earlier LUIGI BORRELLI NAPOLI mark. This might be the same company that is responsible for the ties on eBay.