derby shoes always wrong for formal wear?

[JFWR]

Thank you, JFWR. I understand there are great variations from decadeto decade. And that the style evolves. It’s just very often, at the end of black tie events, there is a big group photo to commemorate whatever occasion we were celebrating. And those photos never have the dignity of the olden days, no matter how well they are staged. Because there is such extreme variety in the uniform people were asked to wear. I always find that disappointing. But that may just be me. Thanks for replying and for these useful thoughts

Yeah, it is sad. There is something to be said for a "dress code" being a dress code. There is something nice about there being broad uniformity across the style, to give a sense of unity and purpose, a commitment to elegance, etc. I can understand what you mean.

But yeah, as a point of fact, black tie has become more variable with the years.

 

[RSS]

Thanks, but aren't we doing everything for that 1% anyway? Most people notice nothing.

I promise not to faint when I see your open lacing. Promise. And I wear pumps with bows with my black tie.

 

[Andy57]

I know the rule that you're not supposed to wear derbies/bluchers for white tie or black tie or cutaway. But why is that?

I think if you have a pair of patent-leather derbies it is perfectly okay to wear them with a black tie rig. I personally don't, but that's just me. I think patent derbies is better than calf oxfords, in fact.

 

[St1X]

I think if you have a pair of patent-leather derbies it is perfectly okay to wear them with a black tie rig. I personally don't, but that's just me. I think patent derbies is better than calf oxfords, in fact.

Originally men wore black calf oxfords with mirror shine. However wax that they used back in the days would stain their lady's dresses, so that's how patented leather became a black tie thing.
These days we don't have this problem. And it's actually smarter to use black calf whole cuts with a good mirror shine as they can be used for other outfits too

 

[Monsieur de Givenchy]

I think if you have a pair of patent-leather derbies it is perfectly okay to wear them with a black tie rig. I personally don't, but that's just me. I think patent derbies is better than calf oxfords, in fact.

Originally men wore black calf oxfords with mirror shine. However wax that they used back in the days would stain their lady's dresses, so that's how patented leather became a black tie thing.
These days we don't have this problem. And it's actually smarter to use black calf whole cuts with a good mirror shine as they can be used for other outfits too

I must say, here I disagree somewhat with Andy 57 and agree strongly with St1X, but not for the different reasons. There is something vulgar and carnivalesque about patent leather in my opinion. A black calf Oxford with a mirror shine (ideally a plain toe Balmoral, not a Wholecut) would always be the most elegant option in my opinion.

 

[Andy57]

Originally men wore black calf oxfords with mirror shine. However wax that they used back in the days would stain their lady's dresses, so that's how patented leather became a black tie thing.
These days we don't have this problem. And it's actually smarter to use black calf whole cuts with a good mirror shine as they can be used for other outfits too

The origin of patent leather is irrelevant. I don't really understand why wearing calf shoes is "smarter". If you want your shoes to do double duty, that is entirely up to you. It doesn't make you smarter.

I must say, here I disagree somewhat with Andy 57 and agree strongly with St1X, but not for the different reasons. There is something vulgar and carnivalesque about patent leather in my opinion.

That would seem to be entirely your problem, not mine.

 

[St1X]

The origin of patent leather is irrelevant. I don't really understand why wearing calf shoes is "smarter". If you want your shoes to do double duty, that is entirely up to you. It doesn't make you smarter.

Patented leather is the lowest quality, cheapest leather covered in plastic. It's not going to last as long as proper calf leather and cracks on the plastic will start to form pretty soon, so it will make it totally unfit for a black tie outfit. Black calf leather shoes will serve you in both black tie and suit & tie formal outfits, so yes, it does make you smarter if you get them instead of patented leather shoes. It's your problem if you don't get it

 

[Andy57]

Patented leather is the lowest quality, cheapest leather covered in plastic. It's not going to last as long as proper calf leather and cracks on the plastic will start to form pretty soon, so it will make it totally unfit for a black tie outfit. Black calf leather shoes will serve you in both black tie and suit & tie formal outfits, so yes, it does make you smarter if you get them instead of patented leather shoes. It's your problem if you don't get it

As with all things, it depends on the product you buy and how you treat it. And when something wears out, and I agree, patent leather can be prone to cracking, you replace it or them. But if you want to consider yourself smart for making your shoes do double duty, go right ahead. I do get it. I prefer to be dumb, I guess.

 

[dieworkwear]

These seem nice to me.

 

[ValidusLA]

I dont love patent either, but silly to rule it out in general.

I will say, I think my favorite black tie shoe I've seen is the (hard to track down) St Crispins calf opera pump.

 

[dieworkwear]

I dont love patent either, but silly to rule it out in general.

I will say, I think my favorite black tie shoe I've seen is the (hard to track down) St Crispins calf opera pump.

View attachment 1760174

They do MTOs, so can't you just order it direct?

 

[ValidusLA]

They do MTOs, so can't you just order it direct?

Can you? I saw it on Michael Jondral for a while, but then it was removed. Would want to try on the last first before I MTO a $1400+ limited use shoe.

I dont own any SC, but like the look of that shoe.

 

[dieworkwear]

Can you? I saw it on Michael Jondral for a while, but then it was removed. Would want to try on the last first before I MTO a $1400+ limited use shoe.

I dont own any SC, but like the look of that shoe.

Yes, you can order remotely. I believe most people here do.

I attended a trunk show to see the different lasts and leathers. Found that I like the Classic last best (that's the name of the last). Initially bought one pair and found they were too tight on one spot of one shoe. Ended up doing a custom last where they adjust the standard last with cork. When you order a custom last, you can order a fitting shoe. The fitting shoe will be made from scrap leather and you can gauge where it's tight or loose. Once the custom last has been made/ finalized, you can then order whatever shoes you want.

I assume they travel to Los Angeles, but don't know.

Cyber Fitting - Saint Crispin's

www.saintcrispins.com

 

[R.O. Thornhill]

My take is that how far you can play around with black tie conventions depend on the scale and formality of the event. If I am going to a large gala dinner I tend to stick very firmly to the "classics" (black peak lapel dinner jacket; patent leather oxfords). I do think that these events work best if there is a degree of uniformity to men's dress, and with no deviation from the black/white palette. For a visit to Glyndebourne I might relax it slightly (midnight blue DB DJ) and wear my opera pumps. For a formal dinner at home (say a NYE dinner / party) I would be happy to wear a velvet smoking jacket. I would not wear that to the most formal events

 

[Andy57]

My take is that how far you can play around with black tie conventions depend on the scale and formality of the event. If I am going to a large gala dinner I tend to stick very firmly to the "classics" (black peak lapel dinner jacket; patent leather oxfords). I do think that these events work best if there is a degree of uniformity to men's dress, and with no deviation from the black/white palette. For a visit to Glyndebourne I might relax it slightly (midnight blue DB DJ) and wear my opera pumps. For a formal dinner at home (say a NYE dinner / party) I would be happy to wear a velvet smoking jacket. I would not wear that to the most formal events

Exactly this.