DB suit with BD shirt?

[Roycru]

I've always worn button down collars with double breasted jackets and also with suits. The only time that I don't wear button down collars is with a dinner jacket or with a stroller and grey striped trousers. Someone seems to have recently made up some "rules", which certainly didn't exist years ago. (See, for example, John Molloy's 1975 book "Dress For Success".)

 

[archibaldleach]



I've always worn button down collars with double breasted jackets and also with suits.  The only time that I don't wear button down collars is with a dinner jacket or with a stroller and grey striped trousers.  Someone seems to have recently made up some "rules", which certainly didn't exist years ago.  (See, for example, John Molloy's 1975 book "Dress For Success".)

Historically, the button down collar was a casual shirt and was used for sporting events so that polo players did not have collars flying in their face. It has since evolved into a fairly common American style, but it's still less formal than a spead collar shirt with barrel cuffs which is in turn less formal than a French cuff shirt. It makes sense that one would not pair the most casual dress shirt with the most formal garment one normally wears (given the rarity of black tie events, this would be a suit). You're free to wear what you want of course and I don't have any reason to doubt that it works for you but I don't think it's accurate to say that rules on not wearing a BD collar with a suit have been recently made up. I do agree that BD collars work just fine with any odd jacket, SB or DB.

 

[RDiaz]

I voted "Absolutely" only 'cause I didn't read the "suit" part. I think BD collars are perfectly fine with DB odd jackets, but I dislike them with city suits, either SB or DB. But that's because I'm European.

 

[YRR92]

I think R Diaz makes a crucial point. Roycru and I both dress in a very American style, so the idea of a buttondown collar with a city suit doesn't bug us. Anyway, I'm not inherently suggesting wearing a BD collar with the "most formal" attire one can wear (outside of the ceremonial). Yes, a specific type of suit is the most formal garment you can wear (outside of the ceremonial) -- namely a dark, solid worsted suit. That doesn't mean all suits are the most formal garment you can wear. After all, there are casual suits. I'm of the opinion that there are shadings of formality even within the realm of the "city suit." Those could get some play with more casual furnishings.

Of course, I think almost all of my opinions are cast into shadow by my admiration of Grant's french cuff BDs (probably a good thing that I'm not having any shirts made anytime soon).

 

[archibaldleach]



I think R Diaz makes a crucial point. Roycru and I both dress in a very American style, so the idea of a buttondown collar with a city suit doesn't bug us. Anyway, I'm not inherently suggesting wearing a BD collar with the "most formal" attire one can wear (outside of the ceremonial). Yes, a specific type of suit is the most formal garment you can wear (outside of the ceremonial) -- namely a dark, solid worsted suit. That doesn't mean all suits are the most formal garment you can wear. After all, there are casual suits. I'm of the opinion that there are shadings of formality even within the realm of the "city suit." Those could get some play with more casual furnishings.

Yeah, with something like a seersucker, linen, tan cotton or tweed suit, you're probably fine. I figure that DB suits are more common in "city" fabrics than more casual fabrics, so I default to picturing something like a DB navy chalk stripe which to my eye would look really odd with a BD collar shirt.

 

[YRR92]

Yeah, with something like a seersucker, linen, tan cotton or tweed suit, you're probably fine. I figure that DB suits are more common in "city" fabrics than more casual fabrics, so I default to picturing something like a DB navy chalk stripe which to my eye would look really odd with a BD collar shirt.

Even in the case of city suits, I think the texture of the cloth makes a significant difference. I mean, a fresco or a flannel DB in an appropriate color is still more a city suit than anything else, but it is a notch less formal than a worsted -- and that notch at least reduces the gap in formality between the suit and the shirt.

 

[JLibourel]



Even in the case of city suits, I think the texture of the cloth makes a significant difference. I mean, a fresco or a flannel DB in an appropriate color is still more a city suit than anything else, but it is a notch less formal than a worsted -- and that notch at least reduces the gap in formality between the suit and the shirt.

I probably wouldn't wear a BD with two of my "city" suits in smooth worsted. I would probably prefer a BD with any of my three casual suits--all of which are lightweight, summer-y jobs with patch pockets. I would also pair a BD with my navy hopsack if I wanted to dress it down a bit, as I did for jury duty.

 

[conradwu]

I usually wear spread collars with my DB but every once in awhile I decide to live dangerously for a day.

 

[RDiaz]

Yeah, I mentioned I dislike BD shirts with city suits. I specified that because I'd absolutely wear them with a casual suit, no matter if it is DB or SB. I don't think DB makes a suit any more formal, but rather the cloth and other features.

I generally agree with this:


Quote:

 

[Roycru]

When I started working in the early sixties, all of us who grew up in the forties or fifties wore button down shirts because we had always worn button down shirts. The older men, who grew up in the twenties and thirties all wore spread collar shirts, as when they were growing up, the Prince Of Wales (later Duke Of Windsor) wore spread collar shirts. They also favored Windsor knots, although the Prince (later Duke) did not.

Everyone wore grey or blue striped or glen plaid suits and black wing tip shoes. I think that wearing button down shirts with everything except dinner jackets and morning dress is a function of when one grew up. Spread collars seem to have made a comeback and, for some reason, some people wear brown shoes with blue or grey suits, which looks strange to me.

Even stranger looking (to me) are people wearing black suits. Apparently, for many people, black is no longer associated with the SS or with bad guys in cowboy films.

 

[archibaldleach]



When I started working in the early sixties, all of us who grew up in the forties or fifties wore button down shirts because we had always worn button down shirts.  The older men, who grew up in the twenties and thirties all wore spread collar shirts, as when they were growing up, the Prince Of Wales (later Duke Of Windsor) wore spread collar shirts.  They also favored Windsor knots, although the Prince (later Duke) did not.

Everyone wore grey or blue striped or glen plaid suits and black wing tip shoes.  I think that wearing button down shirts with everything except dinner jackets and morning dress is a function of when one grew up.  Spread collars seem to have made a comeback and, for some reason, some people wear brown shoes with blue or grey suits, which looks strange to me.

Even stranger looking (to me) are people wearing black suits. Apparently, for many people, black is no longer associated with the SS or with bad guys in cowboy films. 

Interesting thoughts. I could see certain collars coming in and out of fashion, especially back in an era where men much more commonly wore suits, and can see how certain things would be habit forming for men.

And I agree with you on black suits.

 

[Ivar]



Of course, I think almost all of my opinions are cast into shadow by my admiration of Grant's french cuff BDs (probably a good thing that I'm not having any shirts made anytime soon).

Don't tell Manton about this, or else acrimony might ensue.

 

[YRR92]

Don't tell Manton about this, or else acrimony might ensue.

I'd like one in a graph check or perhaps a tattersall. I think he's on the record against those anyway. Oh well.

Manton is my sartorial better, and I listen to any advice he gives, but it's no problem for me if our tastes differ.

 

[Ivar]



Manton is my sartorial better, and I listen to any advice he gives, but it's no problem for me if our tastes differ.

Diversity is the spice of life. By the way, it's my recollection that Foo was also -- for a time, anyway -- thinking of having french cuffs on his MTM OCBD shirts. I'm not sure if he went through with that plan, though.

 

[JLibourel]

Interesting the comments about the possibility of a generational divide on BD collars. I know that my stepson, for whatever reason, will have no part of them, even though his customary work attire--a decent pair of slacks, good shoes and a dressy shirt worn with an open collar--would seem to be better served by BD shirts than the point collars he favors. I seem to recall someone in this forum stating that nobody under 65 wore BD collars!