Custom White's Boots ... Thoughts?

[suedefetish]

Yeah, the pull loops don't really bug me. The sole is confusing to me.

Sole: Vibram Composition Half Sole - Only available with single midsole

construction wise I don't see any reason not to just have the typical thick midsole with the inch or so exposed on the sole 🤷‍♂️

The pair in the stitchdown bounty hunter review is done that way.

 

[iamntbatman]

My newer pair of BHs are also like yours with the double midsole and Vibram half-comp sole. I wasn't sure what happened, exactly, since I originally ordered a double midsole with a Dr. Soles half sole, but then that got nixed because Dr. Soles doesn't make a half sole big enough for my 11E White's. I told them to go with the half-comp if they could (though I was aware of the text that said this wasn't possible with a double midsole), but if the double midsole were already on the boot to just go with a 269 sole instead. They showed up with the half-comp on top of the double midsole just like yours. I guess it's not impossible for them to build boots that way, but maybe it's more trouble than it's worth to allow them as an option.

Not sure why yours ended up with the double midsole though. It looks good!

 

[Abe_Room]

Mine are the same. Thought it was standard to have an extra midsole if you ordered the half sole. Can't complain, better insulation from the ground and a bit more cushioning down the line.

 

[Hellraysaz]

Mine are the same. Thought it was standard to have an extra midsole if you ordered the half sole. Can't complain, better insulation from the ground and a bit more cushioning down the line.

Mine are the same also and that is what expected them to be from the info I had gathered online.

 

[Woodtroll]

On the subject of squeaks in the ball of the foot:

At the risk of getting blamed for messing up somebody's boots, I'm going to share this with y'all. Some of you are in the same shape I was in - you have a pair of boots that are great, except for the squeak, and either because of the shipping costs and long wait, or the fear that they'll come back worse than they were, you don't want to send them back. I've been reluctant to share this because there is potential to really mess up, I guess, but it worked well for me.

I got a pair of Smokejumpers about two and a half years ago, built right after they switched to the "better" glue. Well, the "better" glue was not a good choice - my heel caps were coming loose, and the sole in the shank/arch area where it's not stitched through was coming loose on both sides of both boots, within a few months. I fixed these spots with Barge cement, and they've held up fine. Then, at almost a year old, both boots started to squeak terribly. I talked to Kyle about it and he said I could send them back, but the shipping across the country was expensive, the wait even back then was long, and I was afraid the rebuild would cause the boots to not fit as great as they did. I tried talcum, different socks, filling the boots full of water then draining and wearing, etc. - none of that helped. The one thing I DID NOT DO was pour oil into them. If you soak leather with oil and then ever need to try to glue it, you're out of luck.

So I got to messing with the boots trying to figure out exactly where they were squeaking, and it turned out both were squeaking worst right under the inside ball of my foot, right where the big toe joint is back in the foot. Pressing down inside the boot in that area with my thumb, then flexing the boots on a flat surface to simulate how they bend when walking, it was pretty easy to feel where they were "rubbing" as the midsole layers were slipping as the boots were flexed. I fooled with these things for a couple weeks, trying to figure out how to resolve this and making sure I understood as best as I could what was going on. I reasoned that if layers were rubbing and slipping they could be stuck back together somehow to stop the squeak, and there must be a void or gap between the layers at least at the point of the squeak. I even though about trying to drive screws or brads up from the bottom "just far enough" to pin the midsole layers together but not get into the boot, but I thought that would be pretty risky down the road as the boot wore - I didn't want to jump down off of something and suddenly have a nail in my foot.

So I got a medical syringe, and an 18 gauge hypodermic needle, and did some poking around. On the first boot I hit the void spot right away. I had filled the syringe full of air by pulling the plunger back before inserting the needle into the boot. I knew where the void spot would be by holding my thumb on the squeaky spot inside the boot, so from the outside I pierced the roll in the welt at a downward angle (maybe 25-30 degrees), and kept inserting the needle until I felt it "pop" into the void spot. The goal is to get down into to the layer where the midsole and insole meet, which I reasoned would be the spot they'd be squeaking. Sure enough, when I depressed the plunger, the air went into the boot with no resistance, meaning I was in a void between the layers. So I took a deep breath, drew up some glue into the syringe, and injected a small amount of glue down in that void, probably a quarter to a half of a CC. I withdrew the syringe, flexed the boot a few times to hopefully spread the glue, and then slid my foot in and walked a few steps. I then kept pressure on the joint by standing in the boot about five minutes, gently took the boot off, and put it aside.

On the second boot, I didn't find the void quite as easily. It took a little bit of poking around up and down and side to side before I got the needle to "pop" into the void, but then it was easy to verify by being able to push air in. If the tip of your needle is in solid leather, you won't be able to inject air at all, or only with great resistance. Once you find the open spot, the air injects easily, so that's where your glue needs to go. As you fish around for this void you don't want to be creating a new hole every time in your welt, so keep using the same entry point and just change the angle slightly, either up and down or front to back as you insert the needle, to change where the tip of your needle ends up.

After I found the void on the second boot and put glue in it and wiped the excess from the insertion spot, I did the same thing as the first - flexed it around by hand, then walked on it, then kept pressure on it for about five minutes. Then I made sure all the excess glue was cleaned off the outside, and set the boots aside for 24 hours. The injection site pretty much disappears if you wipe away the glue quickly and mash the leather around a little bit.

The next day - no more squeaks (at least from the area I worked on)! There is still a small squeak in the heel counter on one boot sometimes, and the soles will squeak on smooth floors sometimes, but those are different problems than what we're talking about here. I did this repair a year or more ago, and have never had another squeak from either boot in the ball area.

I can't see where this kind of repair would affect a resole, since a resole never gets that deep into the boot, and a rebuild requires tearing out the whole bottom of the boot anyway, so for me this seems to be an all-win situation as long as it's done carefully. Please don't blame me if you try this and pump a pint of glue into your boot, glue the boot to the floor, or your foot into the boot. It doesn't take much glue to do the repair if you flex the boot and move it around to spread the glue while it is still liquid.

As far as materials - I work as a paramedic and in the fire service, so a needle and syringe are easy to come by for me, but you may be able to ask an EMS provider or health care worker that you know. You want a needle made for a syringe, such as you give injections with, not an IV catheter/needle. If you're feeling lucky you might ask for two or even three needles, as these are easily bent in the heavy leather. About any size syringe should work, but a 5 or 10 CC syringe gives you plenty to hold onto without being too big to manage. You DO NOT need 5 CCs of glue, maybe just one CC total for both boots.

The glue needs to be very liquid to be injected and spread inside the boot. I had good luck with "Boot -Fix Shoe Glue" from Amazon, which is basically a flexible, slow-set SuperGlue:

https://www.amazon.com/Boot-Fix-Shoe-Glue-Instant-Professional/dp/B00Q3IDN5M/ref=sr_1_5?crid=WMBT4BDUBZI&keywords=boot+glue&qid=1664628191&qu=eyJxc2MiOiIzLjQzIiwicXNhIjoiMi42NiIsInFzcCI6IjIuNTYifQ%3D%3D&sprefix=boot+glue%2Caps%2C1627&sr=8-5

IF YOU DECIDE TO TRY THIS YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN. I'm only telling you how I stopped the squeaks in my boots, but it sounds like several of you have very similar issues. If you don't want to send your boots back for whatever reason, this may be worth a try.

Good luck!

Good evening folks,

I had a PM request for further information on injecting the glue, so I thought I'd share the reply here in case others wanted to give this a shot. The "don't glue your boots to the floor" bit was not intended to be condescending, just my poor attempt to humorously say, "Think through what you're doing and be careful". I sincerely apologize if that sounded harsh to anyone.

I've long since lost track of where I obtained the line sketch of the Norwegian rolled welt White's uses, so I hope I'm not stepping on anyone's toes by modifying and using it. Below is the sketch and a quick photo. The blue line in the sketch shows how the needle should go in, through the top of the rolled welt and down into the gap between the insole and midsole.

The photo is of very poor quality, and the needle angle looks more shallow than it really is because the boot is rolled to get better lighting. But the insertion point is in the upper "round" part of the roll on the welt, and downward in between the threads on the stitching to try to keep from cutting either the exposed thread, or the thread inside the roll of the welt. You can see from the "crinkles" in my welt about how the inner stitching covered by the welt (the nearly horizontal red line in the diagram) lays inside, so I tried to sneak the needle in between the threads.

I hope this helps! If not, don't hesitate to ask further questions. I should have taken photos during my repair process, but it honestly didn't cross my mind.

Take care!

 

[Percivilla]

Good evening folks,

I had a PM request for further information on injecting the glue, so I thought I'd share the reply here in case others wanted to give this a shot. The "don't glue your boots to the floor" bit was not intended to be condescending, just my poor attempt to humorously say, "Think through what you're doing and be careful". I sincerely apologize if that sounded harsh to anyone.

I've long since lost track of where I obtained the line sketch of the Norwegian rolled welt White's uses, so I hope I'm not stepping on anyone's toes by modifying and using it. Below is the sketch and a quick photo. The blue line in the sketch shows how the needle should go in, through the top of the rolled welt and down into the gap between the insole and midsole.

The photo is of very poor quality, and the needle angle looks more shallow than it really is because the boot is rolled to get better lighting. But the insertion point is in the upper "round" part of the roll on the welt, and downward in between the threads on the stitching to try to keep from cutting either the exposed thread, or the thread inside the roll of the welt. You can see from the "crinkles" in my welt about how the inner stitching covered by the welt (the nearly horizontal red line in the diagram) lays inside, so I tried to sneak the needle in between the threads.

I hope this helps! If not, don't hesitate to ask further questions. I should have taken photos during my repair process, but it honestly didn't cross my mind.

Take care!

Pictures don't show up for me (edit- now they do), but I thought your post was fantastic! Anyone offended by your obviously tongue-in-cheek disclaimer needs to get out more.

 

[Woodtroll]

Pictures don't show up for me, but I thought your post was fantastic! Anyone offended by your obviously tongue-in-cheek disclaimer needs to get out more.

Thank you. I've tried reattaching the photos again as thumbnails to see if that will work. I'm better with my hands than I am with computers!

 

[klugtrane]

Yeah, the pull loops don't really bug me. The sole is confusing to me.

Sole: Vibram Composition Half Sole - Only available with single midsole

construction wise I don't see any reason not to just have the typical thick midsole with the inch or so exposed on the sole 🤷‍♂️

The pair in the stitchdown bounty hunter review is done that way.

Interesting. I thought all new comp half sole boots used the integrated half sole/midsole now. Below are my two pairs of SD's. The older (~10 years) built with cut down sole, vs. the newer (~ 2 years) built with the integrated midsole/half sole. It's certainly less work, I would imagine, to use the newer sole, and fewer chances of having problems.

 

[Jimk4003]

Interesting. I thought all new comp half sole boots used the integrated half sole/midsole now. Below are my two pairs of SD's. The older (~10 years) built with cut down sole, vs. the newer (~ 2 years) built with the integrated midsole/half sole. It's certainly less work, I would imagine, to use the newer sole, and fewer chances of having problems.

View attachment 1842249

I think you're right.

The Division Road factory tour from a year ago shows a half-sole being fitted around the 5:00 mark. It's a pre-assembled midsole/half-sole that gets attached over another midsole.

 

[Abe_Room]

Good evening folks,

I had a PM request for further information on injecting the glue, so I thought I'd share the reply here in case others wanted to give this a shot. The "don't glue your boots to the floor" bit was not intended to be condescending, just my poor attempt to humorously say, "Think through what you're doing and be careful". I sincerely apologize if that sounded harsh to anyone.

I've long since lost track of where I obtained the line sketch of the Norwegian rolled welt White's uses, so I hope I'm not stepping on anyone's toes by modifying and using it. Below is the sketch and a quick photo. The blue line in the sketch shows how the needle should go in, through the top of the rolled welt and down into the gap between the insole and midsole.

The photo is of very poor quality, and the needle angle looks more shallow than it really is because the boot is rolled to get better lighting. But the insertion point is in the upper "round" part of the roll on the welt, and downward in between the threads on the stitching to try to keep from cutting either the exposed thread, or the thread inside the roll of the welt. You can see from the "crinkles" in my welt about how the inner stitching covered by the welt (the nearly horizontal red line in the diagram) lays inside, so I tried to sneak the needle in between the threads.

I hope this helps! If not, don't hesitate to ask further questions. I should have taken photos during my repair process, but it honestly didn't cross my mind.

Take care!

View attachment 1842029 View attachment 1842032

Why not squeeze the needle parallel to the midsole, between the green upper and midsole. Couldn't you get the needle inside the vacuum with less puncturing of leather that way?

 

[Woodtroll]

Why not squeeze the needle parallel to the midsole, between the green upper and midsole. Couldn't you get the needle inside the vacuum with less puncturing of leather that way?

I expect that you could. Punching down at an angle seemed the most direct way to me and the easiest way to find the void, as I wasn't exactly sure where (how deep/which layer) I would find it. I knew where the slip was in the horizontal plane because I could feel it under my thumb as the boots flexed, but I wasn't sure how deep. The leather is not harmed by the puncture, and the residual glue and a little manipulation seals the hole to where you can't see it. It's admittedly been a while since I did this repair on the boot in the photo, but I could not find the puncture mark in either boot, even under bright light.

But I'm certain my way is not the only way to skin this cat. It worked in my case but I'd really like to see what other home solutions folks come up with for this. The more we all share information, the better off we all are.

 

[Jimk4003]

Interesting. I thought all new comp half sole boots used the integrated half sole/midsole now. Below are my two pairs of SD's. The older (~10 years) built with cut down sole, vs. the newer (~ 2 years) built with the integrated midsole/half sole. It's certainly less work, I would imagine, to use the newer sole, and fewer chances of having problems.

View attachment 1842249

Out of interest, are those the original Cats Paw heels on your old pair?

I recently got a pair of boots with Cats Paw heels, and I'm curious about how they wear.

Cheers.

 

[klugtrane]

Out of interest, are those the original Cats Paw heels on your old pair?

I recently got a pair of boots with Cats Paw heels, and I'm curious about how they wear.

Cheers.

Yeah, they were a pleasant surprise from my local cobbler when I last had them done. I haven't put a ton of miles on them since, but I think they might be a touch fast wearing/less hard than the Quabaug.

 

[Jimk4003]

Yeah, they were a pleasant surprise from my local cobbler when I last had them done. I haven't put a ton of miles on them since, but I think they might be a touch fast wearing/less hard than the Quabaug.

Interesting, thanks.

 

[Lem87]

So regarding wait times, where is everyone at?
For me, ordered 4/22/22
So, 166 days and counting. Never thought i'd see the day where a pair of White's would take close to 6 months.

I ordered my boots just a month before you did, on 3/24/22. Just got a call asking me to confirm shipping address, today (asked for notification before it shipped during a phoned in progress check, just months prior). You are probably looking at November completion. Mine are likely coming some time late next week, via UPS Ground.