Cars We Drive!

Discussion in 'Fine Living, Home, Design & Auto' started by Bert1568, Jul 18, 2006.

  1. Piobaire

    Piobaire Not left of center?

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    I hear red cars go faster than all others.
     


  2. nootje

    nootje Senior member

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    ive been a manual kind of guy for all of my driving years, and also made most of the points made here in this thread. Ive driven several cars on track and I must admit a manual is more fun there...


    as of late however my milage due to work has increased significantly, and having borrowed an automatic from a friend for 2 weeks I can only say that my next car will also be one.. being less tired when at work, and the ability to do more stuff behind the wheel is sufficient reason for me..





    I know, people who switch camps are the worst [​IMG]
     


  3. Huntsman

    Huntsman Senior member

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    It doesn't matter what you prefer as long as you understand that automatics are better at shifting then you are. If you acknowledge that and still want to drive a manual for the experience then that is cool. I'm just really tired of people thinking manuals are magically faster somehow.
    People who think, somehow, that shift times measured in milliseconds are slower than I can get my brain to start to move my arm and then move it an inch or two are perilously ill-informed. A Scuderia is what, 60ms or something? Some of the dual-clutch affairs are running sub 20ms these days. That's insanely fast. Insanely. I would guess I am probably around a half a second, but I doubt any driver in a road car gets down less than a quarter second (250ms). But I never understand why auto drivers make me acknowledge that yes, many autos are faster, before my preference has validity. This is annoying. It also makes me feel like a Luddite crawling out of the mud towards the foundation of civil society over the narcissim of a minor difference. As a mechanical engineer who designs stuff, I can tell you that the problem with a pure performance -- not so much the goal but as the metric -- is that the best performance will be achieved by getting your ass (and my ass) out of the seat. You are the weak link, and everything that has to be connected to you to give inputs to the car is a weak link. And that will never ever change. The human brain may still be faster than any computer but it is easily distracted. There comes a time when all these arguments are purely academic. Back in the 80's, autos sucked and a 2yr-old could probably shift better. Today, you choose between <100 or <50ms. It's academic. A very sad reality in engineering is that there is limited to no focus on the human experience of a product -- not whether the seat bolsters will support you at (x)g cornering, or how to change gears in the fastest possible time -- but what makes people happy. Companies find it very easy to take happiness out of products (because you can't measure it easily) and replace it with cheap imitations, often cloaked in how much better it performs. Certainly doesn't mean it's any more or less fun. None of this is to say that manuals make people happier than autos or the reverse. Different things make different people happy, which is why there should be an incredible array of awesome cars to drive that are very different and give different people a good experience that comports with their sensibilities.
     


  4. Piobaire

    Piobaire Not left of center?

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    One of the things that sold me on the MB, was driving my wife's. It's a seven speed auto, and simply the best slushbox I've ever experienced.
     


  5. gnatty8

    gnatty8 Senior member

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    I hear red cars go faster than all others.

    Urban legend. Everyone knows fast ain't fast until you're rocking the flamez..

    [​IMG]
     


  6. epb

    epb Senior member

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    I dunno what's worse - guys that can't drive manual, or guys that are manual fanboys.

    I dunno what's worst, the technopihiles that think whatever's newest must be best, or the numbers geeks that think milliseconds matter anywhere outside of F1.

    It's no crazier to want to shift your own gears rather than have a computer do it than it is to fly to Vegas to play poker rather than use a program, or go to the theater rather than watch a DVD, or going fishing rather than heading to Red Lobster. Some people enjoy a more tactile experience, even when its less efficient and/or slower. If there's nothing you do less efficiently because it's more pleasurable, you're a soulless machine or a fucking liar.
     


  7. JayJay

    JayJay Senior member

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    I do acknowledge that the new DCT is a much better and more efficient gear shifter than I am, but then, I am not out there drag racing much, so that greater efficiency is meaningless to me.
    Ditto. For me it's not about speed.
     


  8. JayJay

    JayJay Senior member

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    One of the things that sold me on the MB, was driving my wife's. It's a seven speed auto, and simply the best slushbox I've ever experienced.
    +100
     


  9. jet

    jet Persian Bro

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    I dunno what's worst, the technopihiles that think whatever's newest must be best, or the numbers geeks that think milliseconds matter anywhere outside of F1.

    It's no crazier to want to shift your own gears rather than have a computer do it than it is to fly to Vegas to play poker rather than use a program, or go to the theater rather than watch a DVD, or going fishing rather than heading to Red Lobster. Some people enjoy a more tactile experience, even when its less efficient and/or slower. If there's nothing you do less efficiently because it's more pleasurable, you're a soulless machine or a fucking liar.


    ^+1 on this and huntsman excellent post as usual.

    I am loving the direction of this thread. I thought the record already stated I've beat every smg m3 in an all out drag so the 60 ms is about as meaningful to me as having a computer actuate my gear changes. Gotta love the magazine racers [​IMG]
     


  10. turboman808

    turboman808 Senior member

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    Ah the great manual vs auto vs paddle shift debate.

    Get whats right for you. My accord is an auto because I just want it to get my groceries and don't give a fuck about the driving experience. One of my roadsters is a manual and my favorite to drive on nice days. The other is a auto and just fun to take when you want an easy drive.

    on to the controversy...
    My track toy is currently a manual but soon to be converted to sequential with paddle shift. Also gonna throw in traction control while I am at it. Some are horrified by this. Thats ok. The truth is it will be much faster. Quicker shifts, being further into the throttle and being able to focus on my lines will drop me down below 60s at limerock and my car still has a license plate.

    I will go so far as to say a car with traction control is much more fun on the street. 500hp lamborghini on the street without traction control you will either have to drive super slow or you will wrap it around a tree.
     


  11. bawlin

    bawlin Senior member

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    Again, I reiterate that anyone who is hating on SMG or DCT and the like have never driven a vehicle equipped with those transmissions. They are worlds apart from the tiptronic garbage you find in your father's Lexus. The driving experience is no less engaging than that of a 6-speed. You can feel the clutch engage, you can shift with a paddle or the stick... the only difference is you're not mashing a 3rd pedal with your left foot. Big fucking deal.

    [​IMG]
     


  12. Mr.Pinchy

    Mr.Pinchy Senior member

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    I don't think it's a matter of timing or performance. It's just a lot more engaging to drive manual. And I couldn't care less if the guy in the Camaro SS with an automatic beat me off the line. There are just certain cars you wouldn't buy with an automatic...
     


  13. Alias

    Alias Senior member

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    here's my 02 c5 corvette. 6speed. z51 suspension, and torch red interior

    That's a very clean C5. Looks awesome.

    My car is currently grimy but there's no way I'm washing it in sub-zero temperatures.
     


  14. voxsartoria

    voxsartoria Goon member

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    ^+1 on this and huntsman excellent post as usual.

    I am loving the direction of this thread. I thought the record already stated I've beat every smg m3 in an all out drag so the 60 ms is about as meaningful to me as having a computer actuate my gear changes. Gotta love the magazine racers [​IMG]


    You get to burn your clutch. Computer hates doing that, because the programmers say to it, "Dude...do not burn the clutch...high chance this rig is leased and our masters will own it down the line."


    - B
     


  15. Jbreen1

    Jbreen1 Senior member

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    I do acknowledge that the new DCT is a much better and more efficient gear shifter than I am, but then, I am not out there drag racing much, so that greater efficiency is meaningless to me.

    Exactly. You're in it for the experience and the "purer" form of driving. Nothing wrong with that. I'm not trying to target anyone like you. I guess, like I said, I just have a bad taste in my mouth with all these kids my age with evos and wrx's and stuff that think they are professional drivers and can work a manual transmission like gods. It's also not just about the speed of the autos these days but also the shift points. Being human, it's impossible to hit the most efficient shift point every time. I've been riding bikes for a long time even though I'm young and I still mess up shifts now and then just like everyone. But I still enjoy the manual transmission on bikes, but for cars it's just not for me for some reason.
     


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