Cars We Drive!

[Alias]

There's no denying that flappy paddles are faster on a track. But who drives on a track to work every day, or ever?

 

[zjpj83]

Originally Posted by Huntsman

What is the shift speed of the 'standard' model? I would be more interested in the comparison if it was the same car that could be altered to shift at different speeds, as increased HP, other factors will affect subjective judgment.

150 milliseconds vs. 60 milliseconds

 

[bawlin]

Originally Posted by Alias

There's no denying that flappy paddles are faster on a track. But who drives on a track to work every day, or ever?

And likewise, how many times does someone track their car that makes dealing with 365 days of traffic worth it? That's my argument.

Again, I suspect that most people arguing that manual is the be-all-end-all of transmissions has never driven a car with a capable non-traditional manual transmission (such as tiptronic). I used to be a naysayer til I drove SMG...

 

[Alias]

Originally Posted by bawlin

And likewise, how many times does someone track their car that makes dealing with 365 days of traffic worth it? That's my argument.

Again, I suspect that most people arguing that manual is the be-all-end-all of transmissions has never driven a car with a capable non-traditional manual transmission (such as tiptronic). I used to be a naysayer til I drove SMG...

A pure manual is definitely not a be-all-end-all. Horses for courses. For my needs (and my wallet's needs), a normal manual transmission suits me fine. On the other hand if you're trying to get .7 seconds off your lap time in your two-seater exotic you might want something else.

 

[Huntsman]

Originally Posted by zjpj83

150 milliseconds vs. 60 milliseconds
Hm. Thanks. I was thinking 100ms might be the threshold detection limit -- third of an eyeblink or so.

Originally Posted by bawlin

And likewise, how many times does someone track their car that makes dealing with 365 days of traffic worth it? That's my argument.
Wha? The autos are better at track work, I suppose, and better at traffic, so what are you saying? Most people with manuals like them for everything in between, which is most of their driving. ~ H

 

[Piobaire]

Originally Posted by Huntsman

Hm. Thanks. I was thinking 100ms might be the threshold detection limit -- third of an eyeblink or so.



Wha? The autos are better at track work, I suppose, and better at traffic, so what are you saying?

Most people with manuals like them for everything in between, which is most of their driving.

~ H

You'll have to time my shifts in the new Benz.

 

[bawlin]

Originally Posted by Huntsman

Wha? The autos are better at track work, I suppose, and better at traffic, so what are you saying?

Most people with manuals like them for everything in between, which is most of their driving.

~ H

A major argument from manual fanboys is that they are more fun at the track, something I don't disagree with at all.

 

[A Y]

Originally Posted by Huntsman

Yeah. I meant only to imply that I am way, way, way, slower than any top end auto. Not that shift speed is inconsequential, but that the difference between a 60ms and 20ms shift when, if I'm lucky, I'm at 300+ms, is really inconsequential to me. 40ms may really be inconsequential to most anyone I would presume -- when you say slightly slower, do you mean hundreds of ms order, or tens?

~ H

I don't have the data so I couldn't say for sure, but it was probably a few tenths of a second, and the slower driver was maybe 100 percent slower. Of course, upshift speed is limited by the gearing difference between the gears you're going between, your flywheel weight, and how much you like your synchros. The bigger the difference in gear sizes, the longer you have to wait for the gear you're shifting to and the engine to spin down to the right speed for the upshift. If you're willing to sacrifice your gearbox, you can shift faster.

Downshift time isn't as important because you're usually braking while downshifting, and braking occurs over many seconds. Upshifts are really the only place where a faster shift can get you more time, and the difference is magnified for higher road speeds (because you need more power to make up a road speed difference when road speed is high). Keep in mind, we're not talking about anything exotic like a Formula 1 car here.

I've also driven SMG, and it's a big meh for me.

--Andre

 

[bawlin]

Originally Posted by A Y

I've also driven SMG, and it's a big meh for me.

Again, I'm not going to sit here and defend the transmission. All I can say is that the first few months with SMG, I was driving in the city and ONLY in the city, and yes it was a big meh for me as well. It wasn't until I was able to take it out on the highway on S6 mode (fastest shifting mode + sport button turned 'on' - sport button increases throttle response) that I realized how capable the transmission really was.

I suspect most non-traditional manual transmissions (DCT, PDK, DSG) are the same...

 

[jet]

My favorite part of this debate if you want to call it that is that bawlin doesn't own an m3.

Nice vette up there, my buddy's z06 (c5) made me a huge fan of vettes. Before I would never consider owning one but now the zr1 is lust worthy, even the c6 z06 is a favorite of mine. I'd take that over any newer M car (sorry gnatty ha).

 

[bawlin]

Originally Posted by jet

My favorite part of this debate if you want to call it that is that bawlin doesn't own an m3.
How do you know what I drive?

 

[Alias]

Originally Posted by jet

My favorite part of this debate if you want to call it that is that bawlin doesn't own an m3.

Nice vette up there, my buddy's z06 (c5) made me a huge fan of vettes. Before I would never consider owning one but now the zr1 is lust worthy, even the c6 z06 is a favorite of mine. I'd take that over any newer M car (sorry gnatty ha).

I like Corvettes, and all other high-powered American muscle cars, because they don't seem to take themselves seriously. Yes the interiors are terrible and yes they aren't the most sophisticated but they are fun to look at, fun to listen to, and fun to drive. The M3 has awesome power and it looks great, but I can't get infatuated with it the way I can with a muscle car, because there's no way they'll make one in Grabber Blue with huge LeMans stripes. It needs to learn how to laugh at itself. But that's just me I guess. This is a personal viewpoint, and I'm not trying to say it's the only right one in the world.

 

[epb]

Originally Posted by bawlin

Again, I suspect that most people arguing that manual is the be-all-end-all of transmissions has never driven a car with a capable non-traditional manual transmission (such as tiptronic). I used to be a naysayer til I drove SMG...

Yeah, well you can keep suspecting that, but that doesn't make it true. I've driven Tiptronic, DCT, and SMG, the latter two on the track; gnatty has driven the last two on track as well.

 

[jet]

Originally Posted by Alias

I like Corvettes, and all other high-powered American muscle cars, because they don't seem to take themselves seriously. Yes the interiors are terrible and yes they aren't the most sophisticated but they are fun to look at, fun to listen to, and fun to drive. The M3 has awesome power and it looks great, but I can't get infatuated with it the way I can with a muscle car, because there's no way they'll make one in Grabber Blue with huge LeMans stripes. It needs to learn how to laugh at itself. But that's just me I guess. This is a personal viewpoint, and I'm not trying to say it's the only right one in the world.

I love my m3 and the only thing I could ever imagine replacing it with is a gt3/gt2. Having said that I have a tremendous amount of respect for vettes as any true auto enthusiast would. Sure the interior is garbage but I would replace the ****** steering wheel and who really cares when 2nd gear goes past 85. It was insanely fun to drive, never thought I'd say that. Badge snobs need not apply. It was manual too btw

 

[Huntsman]

Originally Posted by jet

I love my m3 and the only thing I could ever imagine replacing it with is a gt3/gt2. Having said that I have a tremendous amount of respect for vettes as any true auto enthusiast would. Sure the interior is garbage but I would replace the ****** steering wheel and who really cares when 2nd gear goes past 85. It was insanely fun to drive, never thought I'd say that. Badge snobs need not apply. It was manual too btw

Upshifting from 2nd at 80mph = fun.