best off-the-rack suits

[Sator]

You occasionally get some opinion posted saying that "I am a perfect size x so there's no point in going bespoke". There is no such thing as a perfect size x person. If you think that RTW is a perfect fit on you it is because you have so gotten used to only approximate fit all your life that you just think it fits perfectly. Only after you try a bespoke garment do the scales fall from the eyes.

 

[Jared]

Originally Posted by Mute

Here's my thought on bespoke vs. top line RTW. I certainly would prefer going bespoke, but for many, a RTW suit is finished. You can see the final product, including the silhouette and know right off the bat, know whether you like the suit or not. With bespoke, you aren't going to know until it's finished. Now if you go with the house style, then that probably won't be an issue, but if you prefer a different silhouette or cut, unless you know for a fact that the particular tailor has done this before and can make it the way you like, you're taking a chance.
On the contrary, since almost everyone needs to have RTW suits altered! When I'm trying on suits I have to concentrate to ignore the obvious blemishes that I pray will be fixed with alteration. It's even worse when you're speculating with a salesperson about how it will fit. With bespoke you're shopping for a suit creating device rather than the suit itself. They're much harder to evaluate, so most of us go with a reputable brand or the only device locally available. Once you've chosen your device, you must have faith that it will operate as you hope.

 

[itsstillmatt]

Originally Posted by Sator

You occasionally get some opinion posted saying that "I am a perfect size x so there's no point in going bespoke". There is no such thing as a perfect size x person. If you think that RTW is a perfect fit on you it is because you have so gotten used to only approximate fit all your life that you just think it fits perfectly. Only after you try a bespoke garment do the scales fall from the eyes.
Quoted for absolute truth.

 

[Mute]

Originally Posted by Jared

On the contrary, since almost everyone needs to have RTW suits altered! When I'm trying on suits I have to concentrate to ignore the obvious blemishes that I pray will be fixed with alteration. It's even worse when you're speculating with a salesperson about how it will fit.

With bespoke you're shopping for a suit creating device rather than the suit itself. They're much harder to evaluate, so most of us go with a reputable brand or the only device locally available. Once you've chosen your device, you must have faith that it will operate as you hope.


How many people buying RTW are going to have a tailor break down the suit completely and try to fix all the blemishes? Many won't even know the blemish when they see it. Chances are that a RTW customer is going to try to get a suit that fits as close as possible and make only minor adjustments. It will never fit like a bespoke suit, but who expects any RTW to have that kind of fit even with a tailor's help.

On a high end RTW, I dare say that they will have no more blemishes than a bespoke suit. Where an RTW will never match up to a bespoke suit is the fit. But like I said before, sometimes it's about the tradeoffs.

 

[Dragon]

When I used to buy RTW, the only alteration I ever did in my whole life was the sleeve length. The fit compared to bespoke had nothing to do with my purchasing decisions or evaluation of the best suits off the rack.

 

[pkincy]

I stopped by NM yesterday in the madding crowd and browsed through the First Call presale suits. There were several different Oxxford's in my size. (thankfully not the one I bought 3 weeks ago at retail

)

But as I tried each one on, the suit simply didn't hit me right. So I decided why go second best. I will travel (likely to LA for Trabalza or Chicago for Despos) in early December and commission my first suit since I used to travel to Hong Kong on business 25 years ago.

One of the things I was noticing was that at rest my Isaias have very little wrinkling at the top of the sleeve. On my Oxxfords my hands need to be out front of my body about 8-10 inches for the sleevehead to be wrinkle free. It is these little details that I would expect a really good tailor to get right.

Perry

 

[itsstillmatt]

Perry-

That is great. I would try Despos as he seems like just a terrific guy with a lot of style and good ideas. Trabalza is closer to you though.

What you say about the armisinteresting. Yes, you would hope that a bespoke tailor would get that correct, but they will not always get it right, right away. The good thing is that there is no crapshoot. If they need to reset the sleeve because it is not perfect, fine. They put it on in the first place.

Good luck.

 

[taillfuzz]

I wear a size 40R and am a very easy fit. I find that I look very good and am very comfortable in a handmade OTR suit. For me the difference in fit between bespoke, MTM and a properly altered handmade OTR is not very great.

When I buy a suit I pay my tailor whatever it costs to achieve the desired fit. There have been times when I have paid $250 to have trousers recut to make the fit perfect.

Bespoke makes more sense for those who require more alteration and whose body varies more from OTR sizing, but for someone like me the benefits of bespoke are marginal.

I buy Kiton, Oxxford and Brioni. All three provide a very good fit for me, have great fabrics that are often exclusive, and are very well made. These brands are very consistent in fit and quality. They are very expensive, but I am certain to receive the quality that I desire.

The three brands are very different and I wear them for different reasons. Oxxford is a very rugged suit and I usually but my Oxxfords in more durable fabrics that will hold up with heavy use. These are the suits I tend to wear to work or on a rainy day. Kiton has a more relaxed fit; the fabrics are unique
and elegant. I realize that these fabrics are more delicate and I usually wear them for special events or when I just feel like looking very good.

Brioni is the quintessential power suit and conveys an image of elegant authority. The fabrics and construction are wonderful, but the fit and image are not relaxed like Kiton. Barbera and Belvest are great options at a lower price. Barbera fabrics are superb.

 

[well-kept]

Originally Posted by DocHolliday

Just to play devil's advocate ... would that woman be more attractive in a frumpy floor-length dress or in a mid-calf number that showed off her figure? Similarly, why would women not react to the cut of a suit?

Two words. Donald. Trump.

Clothes don't make the man. The man makes the man. Clothes may enhance or detract from. In the end, Brioni will not make you.

We all know - or have observed, or perhaps at one time been - that young guy who can get out of bed, throw on a t-shirt and the same jeans and shoes he's been wearing for months, go out unshaved and uncombed and still radiate perfect self-possession and confidence, sexual or otherwise. Comes from within.

 

[a tailor]

Originally Posted by chobochobo

except for you. It's the style/cut that you like. Looking at your suggestions, I think you're more fashion-orientated. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but you do have to take care with the longevity of the suit. I'm just as guilty with my trio of 'fashion' suits still in my wardrobe.

Others will have different preferences. I think general advise is buy into 'quality' ie good materials and proper construction (canvas vs fusing) and get something that fits properly. In the end, a 150usd dollar suit that fits you perfectly is going to look infinitely better than that 3000usd Oxxford that isn't.

so true!!! in rtw fit comes first.

 

[a tailor]

Originally Posted by pkincy

I stopped by NM yesterday in the madding crowd and browsed through the First Call presale suits. There were several different Oxxford's in my size. (thankfully not the one I bought 3 weeks ago at retail

)

But as I tried each one on, the suit simply didn't hit me right. So I decided why go second best. I will travel (likely to LA for Trabalza or Chicago for Despos) in early December and commission my first suit since I used to travel to Hong Kong on business 25 years ago.

One of the things I was noticing was that at rest my Isaias have very little wrinkling at the top of the sleeve. On my Oxxfords my hands need to be out front of my body about 8-10 inches for the sleevehead to be wrinkle free. It is these little details that I would expect a really good tailor to get right.

Perry

rtw and mtm sleeves are set to hang at an average angle like you see on a display form. your sleeves can be rehung to fit you by a good tailor.

 

[Jared]

Originally Posted by taillfuzz

I wear a size 40R and am a very easy fit. I find that I look very good and am very comfortable in a handmade OTR suit. For me the difference in fit between bespoke, MTM and a properly altered handmade OTR is not very great. ... Bespoke makes more sense for those who require more alteration and whose body varies more from OTR sizing, but for someone like me the benefits of bespoke are marginal. I buy Kiton, Oxxford and Brioni. All three provide a very good fit for me, have great fabrics that are often exclusive, and are very well made. These brands are very consistent in fit and quality. They are very expensive, but I am certain to receive the quality that I desire.
Now if you happen to have the trim 40R shape that fashionable suits are designed for, then I totally understand choosing OTR in a cost-benefit analysis. But Oxxfords et al are basically designed to hide non-ideal bodies in a sack. These are exactly the bodies that would benefit from bespoke, because a tailor can minimize the negatives and accentuate the positives rather than just trying to sweep the whole thing under the rug. It seems to me that the "rational" market for Oxxfords et al are consumers who can't afford both excellent cut and construction so therefore choose to optimize construction. Except that I think most SF members would say that's an irrational optimization and those consumers would look better in cheap bespoke. So as the overseas bespoke operations get sorted out and become acceptable to more consumers, we should see the high-end sack OTR market die out. Or maybe it'll all be bought by trads with very different priorities than the rest of us... Am I totally off-base here?

 

[itsstillmatt]

Originally Posted by Jared

Now if you happen to have the trim 40R shape that fashionable suits are designed for, then I totally understand choosing OTR in a cost-benefit analysis. But Oxxfords et al are basically designed to hide non-ideal bodies in a sack. These are exactly the bodies that would benefit from bespoke, because a tailor can minimize the negatives and accentuate the positives rather than just trying to sweep the whole thing under the rug. It seems to me that the "rational" market for Oxxfords et al are consumers who can't afford both excellent cut and construction so therefore choose to optimize construction. Except that I think most SF members would say that's an irrational optimization and those consumers would look better in cheap bespoke. So as the overseas bespoke operations get sorted out and become acceptable to more consumers, we should see the high-end sack OTR market die out. Or maybe it'll all be bought by trads with very different priorities than the rest of us... Am I totally off-base here?
I disagree. I think that most people will look better in OTR Oxxford than in cheap bespoke. The Oxxford will look better and better over time while the cheap bespoke may not. What Oxxford cannot measure up to is good bespoke. I guess what I am saying is that I would rather have a Charvet RTW than Jantzen, but would prefer Battistoni bespoke to either.

 

[taillfuzz]

Now if you happen to have the trim 40R shape that fashionable suits are designed for, then I totally understand choosing OTR in a cost-benefit analysis. But Oxxfords et al are basically designed to hide non-ideal bodies in a sack. These are exactly the bodies that would benefit from bespoke, because a tailor can minimize the negatives and accentuate the positives rather than just trying to sweep the whole thing under the rug.

It seems to me that the "rational" market for Oxxfords et al are consumers who can't afford both excellent cut and construction so therefore choose to optimize construction. Except that I think most SF members would say that's an irrational optimization and those consumers would look better in cheap bespoke. So as the overseas bespoke operations get sorted out and become acceptable to more consumers, we should see the high-end sack OTR market die out. Or maybe it'll all be bought by trads with very different priorities than the rest of us...
]Am I totally off-base here?[/QUOTE

I do not see any possibility that cheap bespoke will replace Oxxford. Very few men who wear Oxxford would be satisfied with cheap bespoke. I do not view Oxxford to be a sack, although it is not a suit for bodybuilders either.

Men who buy Oxxford would generally buy MTM rather than cheap bespoke. A great tailor can also do wonders with an OTR Oxxford. Of course a bespoke suit in a superb fabric made by an exceptional tailor is the ultimate; especially for men who vary greatly from standard OTR sizing.

 

[T Shields]

Hi,

I have been following this thread for some time now and I am now in need for an off the rack suit for my wedding. I originally wanted a bespoke suit but do not have the time to have one made as my wedding's 2 weeks away. I will be going to Hong Kong next week and was looking at Hugo Boss. I am open to other brands. The only reason I mentioned Hugo boss is that I have one and it looks good as far as off the rack goes. I was hoping some of you could point me towards the right direction to save me from all the other crap. Thanks.


T

P.S. My other Hugo Boss suit is 48C (EU) and when I called HK to ask if they have my size they told me that they only carry regular sizes. I thought an Asian country would have more short cut suits.