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Beige sweaters question. Does anyone here wear beige sweaters and does it look creepy?

wkt

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Nope. It's a lot. I know that you can get trousers for more, and the more expensive ones might be better in this way or that. Fine. But let's not pretend that $400 isn't a lot of money for trousers, even good ones. Maybe it's not a lot of money for great ones, but there is no need to push people into thinking that $400 is the norm, or that you need $400+ pants to dress well. I hear people complain a lot on here that not enough people dress nicely and that classic menswear is dying. Maybe that is because we act like $400 for a pair of pants is normal. You saw this above with the OP. The idea of $400 pants was a complete nonstarter, a complete turn-off. No quicker way to turn someone away from menswear than making it inaccessible. If you want to appreciate $400+ pants, that's fine. I appreciate them too. But let's not act like $400 isn't a lot to spend on pants. If you told a random person on the street how much your pants cost, he would look at you like you were a crazy person.
this is why people who make a lot of money dont think they are actually rich, they live in their own crazy world and are always comparing themselves to people who have even more money.
 

Nobilis Animus

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Nope. It's a lot. I know that you can get trousers for more, and the more expensive ones might be better in this way or that. Fine. But let's not pretend that $400 isn't a lot of money for trousers, even good ones. Maybe it's not a lot of money for great ones, but there is no need to push people into thinking that $400 is the norm, or that you need $400+ pants to dress well. I hear people complain a lot on here that not enough people dress nicely and that classic menswear is dying. Maybe that is because we act like $400 for a pair of pants is normal. You saw this above with the OP. The idea of $400 pants was a complete nonstarter, a complete turn-off. No quicker way to turn someone away from menswear than making it inaccessible. If you want to appreciate $400+ pants, that's fine. I appreciate them too. But let's not act like $400 isn't a lot to spend on pants. If you told a random person on the street how much your pants cost, he would look at you like you were a crazy person.
Oh, I agree that OP needn't spend that much, of course. There are plenty of other options below that - even more so if if he were to buy from ebay or the like. But at new prices, $400 isn't a lot for good trousers. It simply isn't.

Charvet ties, high-end shirts, silk scarves, and even fragrances are all things which are arguably less central to an outfit than trousers - and all are north of $400 easily. Say you are an opera-goer with a companion: the tickets will cost more than that. Exactly what might one expect the outfits to cost?
 

Nobilis Animus

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this is why people who make a lot of money dont think they are actually rich, they live in their own crazy world and are always comparing themselves to people who have even more money.
As opposed to the immediately crazy world?

We all started with half-pants, you know. It takes time to build up to full britches.
 

TheShetlandSweater

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Oh, I agree that OP needn't spend that much, of course. There are plenty of other options below that - even more so if if he were to buy from ebay or the like. But at new prices, $400 isn't a lot for good trousers. It simply isn't.

Charvet ties, high-end shirts, silk scarves, and even fragrances are all things which are arguably less central to an outfit than trousers - and all are north of $400 easily. Say you are an opera-goer with a companion: the tickets will cost more than that. Exactly what might one expect the outfits to cost?
What world are you living in? Charvet ties are way less than $400 and are overpriced (and ugly) besides. High-end shirts are rarely that much. Simon at Permanent Style uses D'Avino for his absolutely finest bespoke shirts. He seems to view them as more of a luxury than his other bespoke purchases and they go for about $400 a pop. I don't know where you are buying your silk scarves from, but places like Drake's sell them for much less. They have some for around $200 on their site. Their wool-silk blends are in the $300s. I know nothing of fragrances so I can't comment there. The Metropolitan Opera says that over a third of their tickets are less than $100--and most people here aren't going to the opera all that often.

Also, you seem to be listing the highest of the high-end. The question is not whether a tie can be found that costs more than $400. The question is what is reasonable for a good tie. You can get a great tie for about $100 from places like Shibumi, H.N. White, Drake's on sale (not hard to find), EG Cappelli, etc. Similarly, you can find $400 trousers, but you can find good trousers for much less. This isn't to say that there aren't trousers that are justifiably worth $400, just that good pants can be had for much less.
 

Nobilis Animus

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What world are you living in? Charvet ties are way less than $400 and are overpriced (and ugly) besides. High-end shirts are rarely that much. Simon at Permanent Style uses D'Avino for his absolutely finest bespoke shirts. He seems to view them as more of a luxury than his other bespoke purchases and they go for about $400 a pop. I don't know where you are buying your silk scarves from, but places like Drake's sell them for much less. They have some for around $200 on their site. Their wool-silk blends are in the $300s. I know nothing of fragrances so I can't comment there. The Metropolitan Opera says that over a third of their tickets are less than $100--and most people here aren't going to the opera all that often.

Also, you seem to be listing the highest of the high-end. The question is not whether a tie can be found that costs more than $400. The question is what is reasonable for a good tie. You can get a great tie for about $100 from places like Shibumi, H.N. White, Drake's on sale (not hard to find), EG Cappelli, etc. Similarly, you can find $400 trousers, but you can find good trousers for much less. This isn't to say that there aren't trousers that are justifiably worth $400, just that good pants can be had for much less.
Well you're right about Charvet. They're less than I remembered, but still pricey - the styles are a matter of opinion. Borrelli shirts are RTW, and even they are over $400. Turnbull and Asser shirts are well over $500 for their best cottons. As for silk scarves, that depends upon the maker, as you say. I don't own anything from Drakes, so I cannot comment on the quality.

I suppose it isn't any good to point out the differences in seating at the opera? Regardless, no good seat can be had for $100, you can rely on that. I happen to be a regular attendant at ballets and operas in ordinary times, and box seats aren't cheap. Opening night of Sleeping Beauty two years ago was upwards of $400 just for gallery seating, which is likely to increase post-pandemic.

I agree that what matters is the definition of what is decent. Personally, I'm one who would rather do without than wear anything less than exactly what I want. If I couldn't buy a custom or otherwise well-made suit, I'd rather not wear a suit at all than don a fused monstrosity - no matter whose name is affixed to it. But even jeans nowadays cost more around $200 - if you actually want good ones that will make you look good in them. Yes, they used to cost less 30 years ago, but this is what they cost now to get the same fit and quality you used to have from Levi's before they went to hell.

So I'm perfectly aware that some people are satisfied with $100 trousers - or $500 suits, for that matter. But to be logically consistent with the theory of diminishing returns for a purchase, there must a point at which the price is too cheap to be of any real quality. Otherwise the notion is that quality can be had at any price - which is no doubt comforting, but also woefully wrong.
 
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leadbelly2550

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When I am looking for ‘neutral’ sweaters i tend toward greys more than tans, but there is nothing wrong with that sweater. I also like lambswool and cashmere for lighter-weight sweaters but have been exploring good quality shetlands as an alternative. Most recent purchases - shetlands from Harley and Jamieson, both made in Scotland. reasonably priced considering the quality. (One light gray, one midnight blue)
 

Blake Stitched Blues

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Not a fan of beige in a sweater. I much prefer them in cream, heathered grays or navy. Or dark green which is far and away the most versatile colour for a sweater.
 

dieworkwear

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I suppose it isn't any good to point out the differences in seating at the opera? Regardless, no good seat can be had for $100, you can rely on that. I happen to be a regular attendant at ballets and operas in ordinary times, and box seats aren't cheap. Opening night of Sleeping Beauty two years ago was upwards of $400 just for gallery seating
This is a great time for buying clothes you can wear to the opera, so act fast.
 

TheShetlandSweater

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Well you're right about Charvet. They're less than I remembered, but still pricey - the styles are a matter of opinion. Borrelli shirts are RTW, and even they are over $400. Turnbull and Asser shirts are well over $500 for their best cottons. As for silk scarves, that depends upon the maker, as you say. I don't own anything from Drakes, so I cannot comment on the quality.

I suppose it isn't any good to point out the differences in seating at the opera? Regardless, no good seat can be had for $100, you can rely on that. I happen to be a regular attendant at ballets and operas in ordinary times, and box seats aren't cheap. Opening night of Sleeping Beauty two years ago was upwards of $400 just for gallery seating, which is likely to increase post-pandemic.

I agree that what matters is the definition of what is decent. Personally, I'm one who would rather do without than wear anything less than exactly what I want. If I couldn't buy a custom or otherwise well-made suit, I'd rather not wear a suit at all than don a fused monstrosity - no matter whose name is affixed to it. But even jeans nowadays cost more around $200 - if you actually want good ones that will make you look good in them. Yes, they used to cost less 30 years ago, but this is what they cost now to get the same fit and quality you used to have from Levi's before they went to hell.

So I'm perfectly aware that some people are satisfied with $100 trousers - or $500 suits, for that matter. But to be logically consistent with the theory of diminishing returns for a purchase, there must a point at which the price is too cheap to be of any real quality. Otherwise the notion is that quality can be had at any price - which is no doubt comforting, but also woefully wrong.
1) Borrelli shirts are around $200 everywhere I am looking. Turnbull & Asser appear to be a little over $200 for ordinary fabrics. You can talk about the highest end stuff all you want, but you can get good bespoke shirts for less than $400. If you are paying that much for RTW, you are either paying for a really luxurious fabric or dramatically overpaying.

2) My point was not merely that people are satisfied with pants that are meaningfully less than $400. My point was that such pants can be very good. If you want to tell me why I am wrong and why such pants aren't good, go ahead.
 

FlyingHorker

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Well you're right about Charvet. They're less than I remembered, but still pricey - the styles are a matter of opinion. Borrelli shirts are RTW, and even they are over $400. Turnbull and Asser shirts are well over $500 for their best cottons. As for silk scarves, that depends upon the maker, as you say. I don't own anything from Drakes, so I cannot comment on the quality.

I suppose it isn't any good to point out the differences in seating at the opera? Regardless, no good seat can be had for $100, you can rely on that. I happen to be a regular attendant at ballets and operas in ordinary times, and box seats aren't cheap. Opening night of Sleeping Beauty two years ago was upwards of $400 just for gallery seating, which is likely to increase post-pandemic.

I agree that what matters is the definition of what is decent. Personally, I'm one who would rather do without than wear anything less than exactly what I want. If I couldn't buy a custom or otherwise well-made suit, I'd rather not wear a suit at all than don a fused monstrosity - no matter whose name is affixed to it. But even jeans nowadays cost more around $200 - if you actually want good ones that will make you look good in them. Yes, they used to cost less 30 years ago, but this is what they cost now to get the same fit and quality you used to have from Levi's before they went to hell.

So I'm perfectly aware that some people are satisfied with $100 trousers - or $500 suits, for that matter. But to be logically consistent with the theory of diminishing returns for a purchase, there must a point at which the price is too cheap to be of any real quality. Otherwise the notion is that quality can be had at any price - which is no doubt comforting, but also woefully wrong.
I feel like the existence of Spier & Mackay and Proper Cloth invalidates a lot of this argument. They both use pretty renowned mills in various price points for shirts and trousers and so on.

This might have been true 10 years ago, but quality tailoring is way more affordable these days.

I haven't had any quality issues in the "too cheap to be of any real quality" price category for S&M.
 

Nobilis Animus

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1) Borrelli shirts are around $200 everywhere I am looking. Turnbull & Asser appear to be a little over $200 for ordinary fabrics. You can talk about the highest end stuff all you want, but you can get good bespoke shirts for less than $400. If you are paying that much for RTW, you are either paying for a really luxurious fabric or dramatically overpaying.

2) My point was not merely that people are satisfied with pants that are meaningfully less than $400. My point was that such pants can be very good. If you want to tell me why I am wrong and why such pants aren't good, go ahead.
The more expensive Turnbull and Asser shirts are sea island cotton, so yes they're more luxurious. Six bespoke shirts are priced at around $500 each for a bargain: https://trulyexperiences.com/us/bespoke-shirt-with-turnbull-asser.html Serviceable shirts can be had for less, but why settle for serviceable?

Perhaps it would clarify things if I explained my own approach: my version of very good trousers begins at hand stitching, excellent fit and fabric, a good fit at the waist while draping nicely, and made in Canada/USA or a European country. I have not been able to find these things at less than several hundred dollars, at the least. As I said, the one pair of khakis that I thought worth buying, even though I hardly ever wear them, was ~$450. I do own some in the $200-250 range, and those are basically disposable - spill wine over the front and toss kind of things (except for the jeans).

I don't turn up my nose at good deals, and I even stop by thrift shops to see if I can find the odd gem. But I suppose the level that I entertain as good enough clothing for me to purchase and own is fairly high. That may not be for everyone, but those are my standards.
 
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