The State of Black Tie: Your Observations

[Gus]

^^Nice. Hard to beat a DB for classic style.

BTW, shaken or stirred?

 

[F. Corbera]



^^Nice. Hard to beat a DB for classic style.
BTW, shaken or stirred?

[VIDEO][/VIDEO]

 

[Gus]

 

[WorkingOnIt]



I hate to go all Sator on you but you are wrong on all three counts.
1#
Historical proof shows that notches were just as common at the genesis of the garment as peak or shawl.
2#

3#
Nobody suggested breaking any rules - just not sticking to the SF clique rules.
For your information I prefer a shawl but the Duke of Edinburgh prefers a notch. Each to our own.

I do not think the modern rules of blacktie are set in stone. Personally, polished captoes win out over owning a special pair of patents.
However, counterpoint to #2:

 

[patrickBOOTH]

I own the same lamp pictured above except it has a red shade not a green one.

 

[JLibourel]

I would agree with those who hold that the forum group hatred toward notch-lapel tuxes is a bit silly. They were around in the pre-WWI era. I'll concede that they seem to have lapsed into abeyance during the "golden age," but they have been back in force since at least the 1960s. The notch-lapel echoes the historical fact that the tuxedo began as a casual garment. Styles do change after all, and after something has been current for almost a half-century, one can hardly regard it as a novelty subversive of "proper" black tie.

So, while I would never get a notch-lapel tuxedo (in the unlikely event I ever needed a tuxedo), I cannot say that there is an inherent "wrongness" to it or that a man otherwise well turned out and wearing a notch-lapel is ipso facto substandard in his dress.

 

[unbelragazzo]



I hate to go all Sator on you but you are wrong on all three counts.
1#
Historical proof shows that notches were just as common at the genesis of the garment as peak or shawl.
2#

3#
Nobody suggested breaking any rules - just not sticking to the SF clique rules.
For your information I prefer a shawl but the Duke of Edinburgh prefers a notch. Each to our own.

1 - My impression is that it derives from the tailcoat, which is always peak-lapeled. I'm sure this was bent early on, but as the morning coat is generally peak-lapeled as well, it's my impression that peak lapels are for formal attire. Somebody explain to me how SF invented these rules.

2 - He looks great because he is an extremely handsome man (no ****). He would look better in peak lapels. (edit: or a shawl, as the other picture shows)

3 - Again, these rules are not random and they are not SF clique. They're not even really rules as they are broken too often to be called rules. "Standard" maybe? Idk...in any case, again, I emphasize, I am not suggesting sticking with them because they are anybody's rules or suggestions. It's just what looks best, and, as a side benefit, does the most honor to the history of the garment.

 

[unbelragazzo]



The notch-lapel echoes the historical fact that the tuxedo began as a casual garment.

It's a more casual version of a formal garment. It was never a "casual" garment. And again, my argument is not that it's "wrong". It's just never the best you'll look in a tuxedo.

 

[Butler]



1 - My impression is that it derives from the tailcoat, which is always peak-lapeled. I'm sure this was bent early on, but as the morning coat is generally peak-lapeled as well, it's my impression that peak lapels are for formal attire. Somebody explain to me how SF invented these rules.
2 - He looks great because he is an extremely handsome man (no ****). He would look better in peak lapels. (edit: or a shawl, as the other picture shows)
3 - Again, these rules are not random and they are not SF clique. They're not even really rules as they are broken too often to be called rules. "Standard" maybe? Idk...in any case, again, I emphasize, I am not suggesting sticking with them because they are anybody's rules or suggestions. It's just what looks best, and, as a side benefit, does the most honor to the history of the garment.

+ 1

 

[Geezer]

"So, while I would never get a notch-lapel tuxedo (in the unlikely event I ever needed a tuxedo), I cannot say that there is an inherent "wrongness" to it or that a man otherwise well turned out and wearing a notch-lapel is ipso facto substandard in his dress."

+1

Good if we could put this hoary old chestnut to bed. It's not wrong. It's just most of us think other options are better. I feel the same in reverse about the recent fashion for peaked lapels on SB day suits. Lots of historical precedents, and not wrong, but not an option I'd personally entertain.

 

[F. Corbera]



The brothers in 1967:

- B

 

[unbelragazzo]



"So, while I would never get a notch-lapel tuxedo (in the unlikely event I ever needed a tuxedo), I cannot say that there is an inherent "wrongness" to it or that a man otherwise well turned out and wearing a notch-lapel is ipso facto substandard in his dress."
+1
Good if we could put this hoary old chestnut to bed. It's not wrong. It's just most of us think other options are better. I feel the same in reverse about the recent fashion for peaked lapels on SB day suits. Lots of historical precedents, and not wrong, but not an option I'd personally entertain.

I'd put it in roughly the same category as flapped pockets, maybe a bit less egregious. It's not wrong, it just doesn't look right to me.

 

[FlyingMonkey]

Quote:

It's a more casual version of a formal garment. It was never a "casual" garment. And again, my argument is not that it's "wrong". It's just never the best you'll look in a tuxedo.

Well, it was casual by the standards of the people who came up with it. Essentially it is an adapted smoking jacket. The proto-tuxedos would therefore have had shawl collars, which to me is still what looks best in evening wear. Peak or notch lapel tuxedos are both later hybrids. Also fine, I am sure, but they lack that certain FU quality that characterised the original intent and turn it into something about rules.

 

[rs232]

What's the rule/consensus on silk pocket jettings?

 

[pvrhye]

To be fair all of these notch pictures are from the late 60's, which is basically the twilight of good taste.