The State of Black Tie: Your Observations

[unbelragazzo]



The "no notch lapel" rule always amused me. It's one of those rules that some obsessive self-appointed style maven made up at some point and then has been repeated ad-nauseum like it's some sort of black tie decree from god. I prefer peaks, but notches are fine in an otherwise well-put-together tux.

It's not just a dumb rule for no reason. Peaks are significantly sharper and more formal to me. I'm actually not as lenient as :foo: on this one. There is no way a notch lapel will ever look as good as peak or shawl lapels on a tuxedo. I guess they are "fine" as in you shouldn't be kicked out of the party for wearing them, but why look just "fine" in black tie, which must be for a big event?

 

[run23]



Notch lapels do not by themselves doom a dinner jacket, but they are typically correspondent with other details that do. Most notch lapel jackets I've seen have been two- or three-buttoned, which is a deal breaker in my book. They also typically come with a vented rear. By itself vents are no big deal, but when combined with the rest, it leaves you with what looks exactly like a regular business suit in black.

While I do find the no notch lapel rule a bit silly, I'll admit that based on casual observations at the too many black tie events I've been to this year that there is a correlation between notch lapel wearers and illl fitting tuxes, with inappropriate shoes etc. One of my tuxes has notches, and when I wear it I can feel the disapproving stares of the black-tie ninjas burning a hole in my jacket.

 

[bourbonbasted]

 

[pvrhye]



It's not just a dumb rule for no reason. Peaks are significantly sharper and more formal to me. I'm actually not as lenient as :foo: on this one. There is no way a notch lapel will ever look as good as peak or shawl lapels on a tuxedo. I guess they are "fine" as in you shouldn't be kicked out of the party for wearing them, but why look just "fine" in black tie, which must be for a big event?

Tuxedos are about the only time to get to enjoy shawl lapels, so I'm going that way for sure if I have one made. Actually, peaks appear on casual stuff these days, so maybe the loss of a feeling of formality is just a symptom of the times.

 

[culverwood]

Black tie is one area where a small coterie of SF and other forum posters seek to impose a set of rules which they seem to have invented themselves. There are a wide variety of coats and trousers, shirts and shoes which are correct with black tie and to limit people's choice to a few personal prejudices of the OP and others of his ilk is pointless.

 

[patrickBOOTH]

I don't think anybody is limiting to a "few" choices. I also don't think anything discussed has been made-up either. I think most of us just agree a notch lapel isn't the best...

 

[culverwood]

You think!

 

[unbelragazzo]



You think!

You want to do a poll? Or you want to gather all the black tie pics from the 30s you can and see how many have peak lapels? Retailers sell notch lapel tuxedos. People wear them. They will not die a horrible death because of it. But it is my opinion that they do not look as good as someone in a peak lapel tuxedo, which is in part informed by historical norms, but also independently by my own sense of aesthetics. You don't agree? fine! Wear a notch lapel tux! I will not think less of you. My only points are:

1) from the genesis of the garment, it has been worn with peak and shawl lapels, not notches
2) this looks better
3) breaking the rules just because they are there is dumb and pointless

If you think the notch looks better and want to buy one, fine.

 

[tj100]



I will not think less of you.

I will.

 

[culverwood]

You think!

You want to do a poll? Or you want to gather all the black tie pics from the 30s you can and see how many have peak lapels? Retailers sell notch lapel tuxedos. People wear them. They will not die a horrible death because of it. But it is my opinion that they do not look as good as someone in a peak lapel tuxedo, which is in part informed by historical norms, but also independently by my own sense of aesthetics. You don't agree? fine! Wear a notch lapel tux! I will not think less of you. My only points are:

1) from the genesis of the garment, it has been worn with peak and shawl lapels, not notches
2) this looks better
3) breaking the rules just because they are there is dumb and pointless

If you think the notch looks better and want to buy one, fine.

I hate to go all Sator on you but you are wrong on all three counts.

1#
Historical proof shows that notches were just as common at the genesis of the garment as peak or shawl.

2#

3#
Nobody suggested breaking any rules - just not sticking to the SF clique rules.

For your information I prefer a shawl but the Duke of Edinburgh prefers a notch. Each to our own.

 

[black_umbrella]

And proved by the peculiar math of SF

1) well reasoned style comment
2) slightly irritated counter argument emphasizing originality
3) irritated counter-counter point reasserting historical norms
4) picture of bond or the duke demonstrating original counter point

QED

However no forward motion is made in this process of mental masturbation.

 

[culverwood]

Agreed.

 

[bourbonbasted]

^^Well stated.

 

[Gus]

At my NY High School, for graduation, all of the men wore white dinner jackets. (1972). The tradition had been going on for decades. I was just looking at the photos the other day. Everyone looked so sharp and the photos look fantastic... even 39 years later. There is a lot to be said for classic style. It endures although it is regularly challenged by fashion.

I remember the white polyester tuxedo trend of the 80's for weddings. Way too many of my friends have odd wedding pictures as a result. Of course their kids get a good laugh out of them.

 

[F. Corbera]