Do you non-Ivy Leaguers feel inadequate?

lifersfc · Mar 24, 2008

You might as well not go to college if it's not Harvard, Yale, Princeton, MIT, or Stanford.

OK, now back to reality. UVA is a great school. They get recruited into the top consulting firms and banks with the same frequency as many of the top schools.

lifersfc · Mar 24, 2008

Originally Posted by Andre Yew

For engineering fields, CMU is often comparable to or better than MIT or Stanford.

This is a joke. MIT and Stanford are clearly #1 and #2. CMU is not even in the top 5 (maybe in a good year).

thinman · Mar 25, 2008

Originally Posted by ComboOrgan

This is certianly hyperbole, but it may not be as outrageous as you think.

In the world of physics, if one intends to be a physicist at a large research university, then one needs to get his PhD from a Top 30 school. There are exceptions, but generally the faculty at even the least prestigious research universities are made up of Ivy Leaguers and and graduates of other top physics schools.

A Physics PhD from UVA will certainly be fighting an uphill battle if he intends to work in academia.

I'm not sure how true this is for other fields, but my point is this: in many fields, his statement is not entirely laughable.

I believe that in the sciences, 75-80% of faculty nationwide have PhD degrees from what are perceived as the top 20 institutions in their respective fields. Having said that, anyone aiming for a position at a research university should choose a PhD dissertation advisor, not a university, because your name will be associated more closely with your advisor than the school. For example, if you go to an Ivy, but choose an advisor who is marginally research active, good luck getting a faculty position. Conversely, if the leader in your chosen field works at a state school, you'd be silly not to line up a position with him/her and then enroll at the state school.

For undergraduate degrees, I think the statement is just silly. There are many, many fine schools that aren't members of the "extended Ivies" (i.e. the Ivies plus Stanford, Northwestern, etc.).

Connemara · Mar 25, 2008

Originally Posted by lifersfc

This is a joke. MIT and Stanford are clearly #1 and #2. CMU is not even in the top 5 (maybe in a good year).
Rankings don't mean as much as you think. I read an article about CMU's various engineering programs and they are truly ludicrous. CMU is no worse than Stanford or MIT.

dl20 · Mar 25, 2008

I've trained alongside many grad students from ivy league schools and have yet to be impressed by any of them. My father practices at a teaching hospital in New York and is always complaining about overseeing students with very prestigious education backgrounds who can't figure out how to open a syringe packet without dropping it on the floor.

dl

A Y · Mar 25, 2008

Originally Posted by lifersfc

This is a joke. MIT and Stanford are clearly #1 and #2. CMU is not even in the top 5 (maybe in a good year).

How does one arrive at such definitive rankings? I've been recruiting people from those schools and other good engineering schools for over 10 years, and the main thing you could say about them is that they are in the same ballpark. Some are better some years, and others do better in other years. Certain schools' curricula tend to produce students who are more prepared for certain things than others, but again that depends on what you're doing after you graduate.

Having attended a top engineering school, I used to believe that one's college education would determine how well you'd perform in your career. Now, beyond giving the student some basic tools, and engendering (or preserving) curiousity and critical thinking, I don't think the choice of undergrad school is all that important for a career in the technical fields.

--Andre

whacked · Mar 25, 2008

Originally Posted by coachvu

My understanding is that some banking firms basically don't hire people from non-Ivy institutes.

Which banking firms?

thinman · Mar 25, 2008

Originally Posted by Andre Yew

How does one arrive at such definitive rankings? I've been recruiting people from those schools and other good engineering schools for over 10 years, and the main thing you could say about them is that they are in the same ballpark. Some are better some years, and others do better in other years. Certain schools' curricula tend to produce students who are more prepared for certain things than others, but again that depends on what you're doing after you graduate.

Having attended a top engineering school, I used to believe that one's college education would determine how well you'd perform in your career. Now, beyond giving the student some basic tools, and engendering (or preserving) curiousity and critical thinking, I don't think the choice of undergrad school is all that important for a career in the technical fields.

--Andre

Well-said.

Brian SD · Mar 25, 2008

I don't think the choice of undergrad school is all that important for a career in the technical fields.

Graphic designers that I know feel the same way. One of my professors drew a graph on the board senior year, illustrating "what graphic designers learn in college," vs. "what graphic designers learn on the job." Needless to say it was certainly biased towards the latter, and this is coming from a Parsons grad.

I think ambition, work ethic and a good amount of raw natural talent all weigh heavier in the long term than education.

tiecollector · Mar 25, 2008

Originally Posted by thinman

Having said that, anyone aiming for a position at a research university should choose a PhD dissertation advisor, not a university, because your name will be associated more closely with your advisor than the school.

Exactly. All the physics majors I know came to my alma mater because of some physics guy that took the first pic that looked something like this:

LabelKing · Mar 25, 2008

Have you become a sort of nascent John O'Hara with all these college threads? O'Hara had a life-long inferiority complex for Yale.

RJman · Mar 25, 2008

Originally Posted by Huntsman

I think the inadequate generally feel inadequate. Then again, there is a fair proportion of the misguided adequate in there as well.
This is well said.

rdawson808 · Mar 25, 2008

Ditto to what Huntsman said.

I'll add that while I never feel particularly inferior (I've met too many dumb, clueless, and/or snotty Ivy PhDs), I shake my head when I hear people blindly adhere to the idea that an Ivy is better than a non-Ivy in all regards. But that's really a case of people talking out their asses about thiings they don't know.

b

imageWIS · Mar 25, 2008

Originally Posted by whacked

Which banking firms?

+1

Jon.

chorse123 · Mar 25, 2008

I think it's more that graduates of the minor Ivies (like Cornell) feel inadequate.

Do you non-Ivy Leaguers feel inadequate?

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