1. And... we're back. You'll notice that all of your images are back as well, as are our beloved emoticons, including the infamous :foo: We have also worked with our server folks and developers to fix the issues that were slowing down the site.

    There is still work to be done - the images in existing sigs are not yet linked, for example, and we are working on a way to get the images to load faster - which will improve the performance of the site, especially on the pages with a ton of images, and we will continue to work diligently on that and keep you updated.

    Cheers,

    Fok on behalf of the entire Styleforum team
    Dismiss Notice

Do you non-Ivy Leaguers feel inadequate?

Discussion in 'Business, Careers & Education' started by Connemara, Mar 24, 2008.

  1. Connemara

    Connemara Senior member

    Messages:
    39,486
    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2006
    I was talking with a distant cousin of mine last night. He is a recent graduate of the University of Virginia, a school far from mediocre (to say the least). We got to talking about college and he mentioned that a fair number of his classmates were rejected from Yale, Princeton, Harvard, etc. and that they've developed a pretty serious inferiority complex. He claims that one of them said he will not be able to get a job without an Ivy League graduate degree. [​IMG] I think the whole "Does the Ivy League really matter?" question is settled (it doesn't) but how do you feel about it?
     
  2. tiecollector

    tiecollector Senior member

    Messages:
    7,031
    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2006
    Location:
    Germany
    Coming out of a public school I wish I had gone to a serious no name university just to show people up. When I think Ivy League, I think bought degree and political correctness. The smartest people come out of public schools. But I could care less, either way I have to prove myself.
     
  3. FabricOfSociety

    FabricOfSociety Active Member

    Messages:
    29
    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2008
    Ivy League typically refers to eight East Coast schools. I would guess graduates of Stanford, MIT, Carnegie Mellon, William & Mary, etc. don't feel inadequate.

    Being human, we all feel inadequate in some area(s) of our lives. At least it might be reasonable if we do since "pride comes before the fall."
     
  4. Manny Calavera

    Manny Calavera Senior member

    Messages:
    2,744
    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2006
    Location:
    New York
    Uh, UVA is a great school. I think it's just dick-waving childishness.
     
  5. Arethusa

    Arethusa Senior member

    Messages:
    5,107
    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2006
    If I get into Brown, I'm going to go to the University of Chicago so that I can tell everyone that I went to Brown and the University of Chicago because I went to Brown and the University of Chicago.
     
  6. coachvu

    coachvu Senior member

    Messages:
    628
    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2006
    Ivy League typically refers to eight East Coast schools. I would guess graduates of Stanford, MIT, Carnegie Mellon, William & Mary, etc. don't feel inadequate.

    Being human, we all feel inadequate in some area(s) of our lives. At least it might be reasonable if we do since "pride comes before the fall."


    I really don't think you can group Carnegie Mellon and William & Mary with the Ivies, Stanford, and MIT. Anyway, back to Connie's question, your undergrad university is very important. My understanding is that some banking firms basically don't hire people from non-Ivy institutes.
     
  7. coachvu

    coachvu Senior member

    Messages:
    628
    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2006
    Uh, UVA is a great school. I think it's just dick-waving childishness.

    Yes, I think UVa has academics on par with several of the Ivies.
     
  8. Piobaire

    Piobaire Senior member

    Messages:
    50,191
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2006
    Location:
    In My Douchemobile
    This thread reminds me of ones where I get lambasted for thinking 150k / year does not necessarily mean you are rich. How many schools are Ivy? Eight? How many people a year can possibly graduate from them in finance and business?

    I think it is possible to find financial success in the US without going to an Ivy.
     
  9. Connemara

    Connemara Senior member

    Messages:
    39,486
    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2006
    I really don't think you can group Carnegie Mellon and William & Mary with the Ivies, Stanford, and MIT. Anyway, back to Connie's question, your undergrad university is very important. My understanding is that some banking firms basically don't hire people from non-Ivy institutes.
    My understanding is that the vast majority of college graduates never even consider a career in banking.
     
  10. AlanC

    AlanC Senior member

    Messages:
    7,805
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2003
    Location:
    Heart of America
    My understanding is that a vast majority of college graduates never consider living in the Northeast.
     
  11. Huntsman

    Huntsman Senior member

    Messages:
    7,732
    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2004
    I think the inadequate generally feel inadequate. Then again, there is a fair proportion of the misguided adequate in there as well.
     
  12. coachvu

    coachvu Senior member

    Messages:
    628
    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2006
    My understanding is that the vast majority of college graduates never even consider a career in banking.

    Of course not. I never said more than 50% of college students want to be investment bankers. However, finance is a popular career choice, considering how lucrative a field it can be. Also, there are probably more Ivy-league grads working at investment banks than grads from non-Ivy schools. I'll defer to other forum members who actually work at these Manhattan investment firms.
     
  13. ComboOrgan

    ComboOrgan Senior member

    Messages:
    352
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2006
    Location:
    Ann Arbor, MI
    He claims that one of them said he will not be able to get a job without an Ivy League graduate degree. [​IMG]

    This is certianly hyperbole, but it may not be as outrageous as you think.

    In the world of physics, if one intends to be a physicist at a large research university, then one needs to get his PhD from a Top 30 school. There are exceptions, but generally the faculty at even the least prestigious research universities are made up of Ivy Leaguers and and graduates of other top physics schools.

    A Physics PhD from UVA will certainly be fighting an uphill battle if he intends to work in academia.

    I'm not sure how true this is for other fields, but my point is this: in many fields, his statement is not entirely laughable.
     
  14. A Y

    A Y Senior member

    Messages:
    5,592
    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2006
    Location:
    Southern California
    I really don't think you can group Carnegie Mellon and William & Mary with the Ivies, Stanford, and MIT.

    For engineering fields, CMU is often comparable to or better than MIT or Stanford.

    To answer the original question, I think it depends on what you want to do. For computer-related stuff, Cornell is the only Ivy that really stands out. That doesn't mean there aren't good people at the other schools: there are fewer and you have to dig deeper to find them.

    This also doesn't mean that a name-brand school offers better training (often it doesn't), but people of a certain inclination and talent will be attracted to certain schools, so the chances of finding a good person at a good school is higher.

    But someone with talent who works hard, and has the desire to do well will always do well at any reasonable school.

    --Andre
     
  15. blackplatano

    blackplatano Senior member

    Messages:
    2,361
    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2006
    Gordon Gekko went to City College.
     
  16. lifersfc

    lifersfc Senior member

    Messages:
    353
    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2006
    You might as well not go to college if it's not Harvard, Yale, Princeton, MIT, or Stanford.

    OK, now back to reality. UVA is a great school. They get recruited into the top consulting firms and banks with the same frequency as many of the top schools.
     
  17. lifersfc

    lifersfc Senior member

    Messages:
    353
    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2006
    For engineering fields, CMU is often comparable to or better than MIT or Stanford.

    This is a joke. MIT and Stanford are clearly #1 and #2. CMU is not even in the top 5 (maybe in a good year).
     
  18. thinman

    thinman Senior member

    Messages:
    4,926
    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2005
    Location:
    USA
    This is certianly hyperbole, but it may not be as outrageous as you think.

    In the world of physics, if one intends to be a physicist at a large research university, then one needs to get his PhD from a Top 30 school. There are exceptions, but generally the faculty at even the least prestigious research universities are made up of Ivy Leaguers and and graduates of other top physics schools.

    A Physics PhD from UVA will certainly be fighting an uphill battle if he intends to work in academia.

    I'm not sure how true this is for other fields, but my point is this: in many fields, his statement is not entirely laughable.



    I believe that in the sciences, 75-80% of faculty nationwide have PhD degrees from what are perceived as the top 20 institutions in their respective fields. Having said that, anyone aiming for a position at a research university should choose a PhD dissertation advisor, not a university, because your name will be associated more closely with your advisor than the school. For example, if you go to an Ivy, but choose an advisor who is marginally research active, good luck getting a faculty position. Conversely, if the leader in your chosen field works at a state school, you'd be silly not to line up a position with him/her and then enroll at the state school.

    For undergraduate degrees, I think the statement is just silly. There are many, many fine schools that aren't members of the "extended Ivies" (i.e. the Ivies plus Stanford, Northwestern, etc.).
     
  19. Connemara

    Connemara Senior member

    Messages:
    39,486
    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2006
    This is a joke. MIT and Stanford are clearly #1 and #2. CMU is not even in the top 5 (maybe in a good year).
    Rankings don't mean as much as you think. I read an article about CMU's various engineering programs and they are truly ludicrous. CMU is no worse than Stanford or MIT.
     
  20. dl20

    dl20 Senior member

    Messages:
    1,298
    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2007
    I've trained alongside many grad students from ivy league schools and have yet to be impressed by any of them. My father practices at a teaching hospital in New York and is always complaining about overseeing students with very prestigious education backgrounds who can't figure out how to open a syringe packet without dropping it on the floor.

    dl
     

Share This Page

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by