Kitchen Knives

so you shouldnt wash and clean your knives after using them? how should one clean them just with a towel or something?


http://www.williams-sonoma.com/produ...?pkey=ccutkajb

is that a good price for some?

Originally Posted by ghulkhan

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so you shouldnt wash and clean your knives after using them? how should one clean them just with a towel or something?

If you use knives that are made from low chromium steel, you must wash and dry them immediately after use if you wish to avoid rust. Some of the steels used in Japanese knives will start to rust very quickly if you don't clean and dry them right away.

rust won't hurt you, but it will make the blades dull faster.

I don't think Williams-Sonoma sells any knives made from non stain-resistant steel.
Both steels used by Shun: VG-10 and SG-2 are stain-resistant.

Rust can damage some knives made from "high-carbon" non stain resistant steel, like old Sabatiers, Japanese Hitachi Blue label and white label, and American tool steels through pitting. I had it happen to me when I stored a semi-stainless knife inside a kydex sheath that happened to have moisture inside of it.

Discoloration caused by rust is normally not damaging and some people like the patina that develops on their older high carbon knives. Using high carbon non-stainless knives to cut foods high in acid (tomatoes, lemons, etc) will cause discoloration very quickly.

Originally Posted by Dmax

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I had it happen to me when I stored a semi-stainless knife inside a kydex sheath that happened to have moisture inside of it.

Kydex sheath? Oh, noes!
http://www.styleforum.net/showthread.php?t=44614

Originally Posted by iammatt

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rust won't hurt you, but it will make the blades dull faster.

Some knife nuts welcome rust. They call it patina.

Originally Posted by Dmax

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I don't think Williams-Sonoma sells any knives made from non stain-resistant steel. Both steels used by Shun: VG-10 and SG-2 are stain-resistant. Rust can damage some knives made from "high-carbon" non stain resistant steel, like old Sabatiers, Japanese Hitachi Blue label and white label, and American tool steels through pitting. I had it happen to me when I stored a semi-stainless knife inside a kydex sheath that happened to have moisture inside of it. Discoloration caused by rust is normally not damaging and some people like the patina that develops on their older high carbon knives. Using high carbon non-stainless knives to cut foods high in acid (tomatoes, lemons, etc) will cause discoloration very quickly.
I've had high carbon blades for more than 30 years. If you allow them to rust, the knives won't last. I've had to regrind the tang and re-rivet once. High carbon steel, IMO, holds the best edge, but they require very alert attention. Your right about the high acid foods, high carbon doesn't make for good kitchen theater.

Keeping in mind that my wife is the cook, and I don`t cook at all...

Real Japanese knives are great, but they require a lot maintenance. They rust easily (unless you keep wiping them clean) and require regular sharpening. The sharpening requires skill too, so overall they are not recommended unless you want to go through the learning process.

The most high end knives, which are the same as samurai swords are harder than regular Japanese knives, which are more soft. This makes them even more difficult to maintain/sharpen properly, so only advanced users are recommended to buy these type of blades.

Also, if you get the really high end Japanese knives, you should get a nice cutting board too. Wooden boards are preferred, as plastic or harder boards ruin the knives more easily.

Considering all that, I think the Shun blades are good for people who want the benefits of Japanese type blades without the hassle of the real thing. I have no idea how they compare though.

Originally Posted by Dragon

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Keeping in mind that my wife is the cook, and I don`t cook at all... Real Japanese knives are great, but they require a lot maintenance. They rust easily (unless you keep wiping them clean) and require regular sharpening. The sharpening requires skill too, so overall they are not recommended unless you want to go through the learning process. The most high end knives, which are the same as samurai swords are harder than regular Japanese knives, which are more soft. This makes them even more difficult to maintain/sharpen properly, so only advanced users are recommended to buy these type of blades. Also, if you get the really high end Japanese knives, you should get a nice cutting board too. Wooden boards are preferred, as plastic or harder boards ruin the knives more easily. Considering all that, I think the Shun blades are good for people who want the benefits of Japanese type blades without the hassle of the real thing. I have no idea how they compare though.
I partially disagree. Shun Classics for example or comparable stainless western style Japanese made knives do not require any more maintenance than stainless European made knives. Softer knives are easier to sharpen provided they have enough carbon content. You may be thinking of traditionally shaped Japanese knives which are not really useful in a western kitchen. You have your long yanagiba for slicing fish and your deba for boning fish and your usuba for chopping/shaping vegatables. At present time you can buy these knives made with different types of steel while traditionally they were made with high carbon non-stainless steel. Modern Japanese super powder steels, like SG2, Cowry-X and ZDP-189 are superior to a lot of steels used traditionally. Knives made from powder steels can be obtained with hardness level of up to 66 Rockwell which is a harder level than most traditional steels are taken to. I agree about the nice wooden cutting board. I personally prefer end grain maple. They are available from Paul Boos or from several sellers on ebay. If someone does not like wood, Paul Boos also has a nice white poly board.

Originally Posted by Dmax

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I partially disagree.


Softer knives are easier to sharpen provided they have enough carbon content.


I agree. This is why I now use carbon steel knives. They respond well to sharpening with a steel, though you'll have to do it more often than with a harder stainless knife. The downside is you have to keep them clean and dry to avoid rust. Also, they will discolor and not maintain the beautiful shine of stainless steel knives. The downside of harder stainless is that once the edge gets to a point where the sharpening steel is ineffective, you will have to get the knife professionally resharpened. Each type certainly has its advantages and disadvantages.

I've got one of the most classic chef's knifes there is, a vintage carbon steel Sabatier Jeune 10" chef's knife with an Ironwood handle.

It's nearly perfect in every respect.

And I never use it, so much easier to just grab a Wusthof from the block

-spence

Originally Posted by Dmax

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I partially disagree.


Shun Classics for example or comparable stainless western style Japanese made knives do not require any more maintenance than stainless European made knives.

Softer knives are easier to sharpen provided they have enough carbon content.

You may be thinking of traditionally shaped Japanese knives which are not really useful in a western kitchen. You have your long yanagiba for slicing fish and your deba for boning fish and your usuba for chopping/shaping vegatables. At present time you can buy these knives made with different types of steel while traditionally they were made with high carbon non-stainless steel. Modern Japanese super powder steels, like SG2, Cowry-X and ZDP-189 are superior to a lot of steels used traditionally. Knives made from powder steels can be obtained with hardness level of up to 66 Rockwell which is a harder level than most traditional steels are taken to.

I agree about the nice wooden cutting board. I personally prefer end grain maple. They are available from Paul Boos or from several sellers on ebay. If someone does not like wood, Paul Boos also has a nice white poly board.

I am talking about traditional Japanese knives. The real thing, and not the western psuedo knives.

I've been using a Henckels Twinsharp knife sharpener on mid-priced Henkels, Wusthof, & Kitchenaid knives.... not too impressed. I want to learn how to sharpen properly before I spend $100+ per knife.

Should I use a sharpening steel in addition to the Henckels Twinsharp, or is a sharpening steel enough on its own? I assume a mid-priced sharpening steel is sufficient?

BTW, Amazon has a Shun 7" santoku for $108 (retail $144).

Originally Posted by Dmax

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I agree about the nice wooden cutting board. I personally prefer end grain maple. They are available from Paul Boos or from several sellers on ebay. If someone does not like wood, Paul Boos also has a nice white poly board.
Paul's brother John has some nice boards as well... http://www.johnboos.com/residential/...tegory=jbc0002 This end-grain walnut board looks sweet: http://www.surlatable.com/product/jo...sc=true&page=1

Originally Posted by amerikajinda

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Paul's brother John has some nice boards as well...

http://www.johnboos.com/residential/...tegory=jbc0002

This end-grain walnut board looks sweet:

http://www.surlatable.com/product/jo...sc=true&page=1

Yes sir. I got my Johns and Pauls all mixed up. I am still waiting for the day when I have enough available counter space to leave the board/chopping block on the counter without having to put it away every time. For know I make do with John Boos poly board.