What do you think of Ralph lauren compared to Brioni, Kiton?

Matt, I normally agree with you on suit quality but my personal experience is different here.

I think drizzt is also incorrect in assuming all Kiton fabrics are not durable. I've been wearing my Diamante 150s on very long plane trips recently and they are holding up wonderfully.

Fineness and durability are not mutually exclusive with regard to fabrics.

Also, when I used to travel to Milan, the local tailors and men's stores were not kind to Saint Andrew's. They told me on more than one occasion that they had quality issues. This surprised me since they were a hometown operation.

Originally Posted by Artisan Fan

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Matt, I normally agree with you on suit quality but my personal experience is different here.

That is fine, we don't always have to agree.

I think drizzt is also incorrect in assuming all Kiton fabrics are not durable. I've been wearing my Diamante 150s on very long plane trips recently and they are holding up wonderfully.

Fineness and durability are not mutually exclusive with regard to fabrics.

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I agree with you. Super 150s are not the be all and end all of durability, but they are certainly pretty good and better than most people on this board would have you believe.

Also, when I used to travel to Milan, the local tailors and men's stores were not kind to Saint Andrew's. They told me on more than one occasion that they had quality issues. This surprised me since they were a hometown operation.

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In Naples you won't find many good words about Kiton quality. It goes with the territory.

While I've never found a Gucci suit I though was of high quality, I've seen RLPL suits that do appear to be high quality. However, I've never seen one that I felt I must have.

Originally Posted by iammatt

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+1 to Drizzt. I think that Saint Andrews is every bit as good, if not better than Kiton and Brioni. I don't happen to like RLPLs model, but the make is fantastic. FWIW, by far the best RTW/MTM I ever owned was when Saint Andrews was making for Barbera.
Well, I'm really fond of my RTW Knize sportcoat - and it wasn't even that expensive IIRC, under 10,000ATS - and my Castangia/Jay Kos jacket, but between Kiton, Brioni, and SA for Barbera my clear favorite is the Barbera as well. And pants, I like the SA ones best by quite a bit. I don't know much of the RLPL line (fit also leaves something to be desired for me, though a few of the old RLPL Chester Barrie models fit me well) but as someone who also owns garments from all three I think the make is broadly similar and the fabric advantage is a split between SA for Barbera and Kiton.

Originally Posted by Artisan Fan

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Bullshit. I had a Saint Andrew's suit once and it sucked. If you want to believe that then go ahead but the handwork is no where near Kiton or Brioni.
Yeah, that's the way to judge a brand, by an n of 1. Your inability to avoid buying any suit with "Poor buttonholes, poor lapel roll, [wrong] sleeve fit, and [terrible] fabric quality" says far more about your shortcomings than SA's! Also thought you might like to see what an intelligently-constructed English sentence with parallel structure looks like, because you seem unable to write one.

The durability issue with Kiton is simply my experience. I just carefully looked at a pair of Brioni and Saint Andrews suits and to my eye could distinguish no difference in handwork between the two. I was curious what you meant by differences in lapel roll, perhaps you could point them out to me from these pictures? Are you saying you like the Brioni/Kiton lapel better, or that you felt the SA lapel didn't roll?

Just a kind word on this forum to remind some people that english is not automatically everybody's mother tongue and therefore some grammatical mistakes can emerge here and there...
It is a bit tiresome to read some personal attacks based on some spelling or grammar issues....
The point raised can still be valid even if it is blinded by some mistakes...
Be fair-play !!!!!!!

Originally Posted by lasbar

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Just a kind word on this forum to remind some people that english is not automatically everybody's mother tongue and therefore some grammatical mistakes can emerge here and there... It is a bit tiresome to read some personal attacks based on some spelling or grammar issues.... The point raised can still be valid even if it is blinded by some mistakes... Be fair-play !!!!!!!
Artisan Fan is from the US though, at least I believe Georgia is still part of the Union

He is a southerner...
I have always wanted to visit the old south Georgia ,Alabama,Louisiana,and others...
In England ,Northerners tend to be seen as grammatically challenged!!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by lasbar

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He is a southerner...
I have always wanted to visit the old south Georgia ,Alabama,Louisiana,and others...
In England ,Northerners tend to be seen as grammatically challenged!!!!!!!!!

Do you like, grats for breakfast ??

Random thoughts:

My personal opinion is that once one gets to the level of a Saint Andrews suit, which is to say canvased, handpicked lapels, handsewn buttonholes, any claims of 'more handmade' are basically hype. (With the exception of Oxxfords hand padded lapels that is.) There are differences, but they are subtle and more a matter of technique/philosophy than they are of superiority. Maybe Kiton has some extra handstitching in the armhole, I've not been able to determine. Keep in mind that I'm no tailor, but I have taken most of these jackets apart for a closer look.

Also, I think ALL these brands are probably more accurately described as hand finished rather than handmade.

Kiton's softer fit is IMO more a result of the house style/philosophy than it is of more handwork.

This reminds me of my visit to Louis Boston a few years back. When I was there I asked one of the sales associates their opinion of Barbera vs. Kiton. The answer was that Kiton was about 'twice the coat'. Now this was a gentleman whose opinion I respect, but still he didn't elaborate. I've heard similar expressions from people in the industry on many occasions, but NEVER anything concrete to back them up. I certainly could be wrong, but tell me WHERE EXACTLY the extra handwork is. In the meantime I have to go with what my examinations of the garments are telling me.

My 2-cents is that anyone who can talk about their wardrobe consisting of Kiton, Brioni, RLPL, Oxxford, Canali, Armani, etc. garments and compare them against each other is not only stylish, but quite fortunate as well. I count my blessings everyday when I go into my closet.

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Originally Posted by imageWIS

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+1. Just put on a Kiton jacket and you will see how much better it is than an RLPL jacket. Using fit alone, it is leagues ahead.
That's just fantasy right there. I own a few RLPL (both CB and St Andrews), as well as Brioni and Kiton suits and, although I really like the Kiton and Brioni, they are absolutely not in a different league. They are all very well made suits, use the best fabrics and have great styling and details (which differ slightly between brands of course)

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While I don't own any Brioni, I do own quite a bit of Kiton, Oxxford and RLPL, and must say that I prefer the Kiton and RLPL far ahead of the Oxxford. Both (Kiton and RLPL) fit me like a dream and offer fabrics that, to my mind, are just a class above.

As between them, I can't say that Kiton is better than RLPL; at least I don't believe it to be. Their use of sublime cashmeres and superior ties do give them an emotional edge (in my mind), but in terms of numbers, I have more than twice as many RLPLs as Kitons (which may have more to do with price than anything else).