Shoe Damage Report & Shoe P0rn Central - Part II

Originally Posted by well-kept

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I always carry a 20-power jeweler's loupe. I'd recommend taking a magnified look at shell cordovan sometime. Then we'll talk.

It's the grain that results in dichromatism.

Everything under a loupe will have "grain", you fool.

Originally Posted by kolecho

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Everything under a loupe will have "grain", you fool.

Well, I guess I'm an idiot. But if everything has grain, maybe that includes shell cordovan. Just a thought.

Originally Posted by well-kept

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I always carry a 20-power jeweler's loupe. I'd recommend taking a magnified look at shell cordovan sometime. Then we'll talk.

It's the grain that results in dichromatism.

How obsessive. I lose then.

Originally Posted by well-kept

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Well, I guess I'm an idiot.
That was my point. Thanks for reinforcing it. My point re Vass' superior looking shell shoes is due to the way they are finished, not the way they are cut. I am sure Alden etc won't go to the extent of compromising their brand by cutting shells in a way that they know is inappropriate.

Originally Posted by kolecho

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That was my point. Thanks for reinforcing it.

Happy to help in any way I can.

Originally Posted by kolecho

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My point re Vass' superior looking shell shoes is due to the way they are finished, not the way they are cut. I am sure Alden etc won't go to the extent of compromising their brand by cutting shells in a way that they know is inappropriate.
I trust you understand that this is not meant to be contentious, but... While I am sure that Vass' finishing techniques contribute...such attention to detail always works to take a pair of shoes to the next level...I suspect that it is a mistake to discount the cutting. Think about it...no amount of superior finishing could make a pair of shell shoes look "of a piece" if they have been cut with no attention to the alignment of the components. PS (on edit)...the one thing to remember is the context. Vass is a workshop, the other is a factory. Few factories have the time or the financial headroom to take such niceties into consideration.

Originally Posted by DWFII

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I trust you understand that this is not meant to be contentious, but...

While I am sure that Vass' finishing techniques contribute...such attention to detail always works to take a pair of shoes to the next level...I suspect that it is a mistake to discount the cutting. Think about it...no amount of superior finishing could make a pair of shell shoes look "of a piece" if they have been cut with no attention to the alignment of the components.

PS (on edit)...the one thing to remember is the context. Vass is a workshop, the other is a factory. Few factories have the time or the financial headroom to take such niceties into consideration.

Thanks again. When you say it, smarter people than I will listen.

Originally Posted by DWFII

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I trust you understand that this is not meant to be contentious, but... While I am sure that Vass' finishing techniques contribute...such attention to detail always works to take a pair of shoes to the next level...I suspect that it is a mistake to discount the cutting. Think about it...no amount of superior finishing could make a pair of shell shoes look "of a piece" if they have been cut with no attention to the alignment of the components. PS (on edit)...the one thing to remember is the context. Vass is a workshop, the other is a factory. Few factories have the time or the financial headroom to take such niceties into consideration.
Do you think that Alden etc would cut shell shoes in a way that they think would be inappropriate? I am not saying that the cutting is not important. I am saying that Vass, Alden etc all cut in the same way. The difference is in the finishing.

Originally Posted by well-kept

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Being a natural material, no two shells will ever be identical. The maker selects the shell he'll work with and decides how to cut it. Clearly in the Vass, each piece is carefully cut with the grain running the same way, unlike Alden or C&J which seem to be cut randomly and show dichromatic tendencies, so much so that many pair look two-tone, no matter which way the light hits them. Then there is the matter of lasting and stitching...

not all vass shell shoes are perfect - i've seen some two tone in light

Originally Posted by kolecho

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Do you think that Alden etc would cut shell shoes in a way that they think would be inappropriate? I am not saying that the cutting is not important. I am saying that Vass, Alden etc all cut in the same way. The difference is in the finishing.
I guess it comes down to how you define "inappropriate." If by inappropriate, you mean they will have to throw away 30% of the shell, or that it will take 10 minutes vs. 3 minutes to properly align the components (factories measure profit in terms of inches of thread), then I suspect that they will slap the dies on the shell for best time and cutting efficiency and devil take the hindmost. And really who is going to notice? People purchase shoes for the cachet of a particular brand name or the price. How many people buy a pair of shoes and walk into shadow and light and then into sunlight, etc.. How many customers will stand off and look at the shoes from 30 degrees and 90 degrees and 246 degrees? And if a customer does notice a difference of colour the salesman will just smirk and loftily pronounce "They're shell, for all love!" And the average customer, suitably intimidated, will pull out his wallet and scurry away clutching his new shell shoes to his chest. Ultimately, this gets to the point I have made any number of times--a factory is not responsible. A factory is not concerned....about anything but the bottom line. So, yes, I suspect alignment of pieces on the shell to avoid subtle colour variations is the last thing the factory will consider.

Originally Posted by kolecho

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The difference is in the finishing.

What do you mean by finishing?

Originally Posted by kolecho

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Vass told me shell can be cut in any direction, unlike calf. I have some natural shells that are just like dyed ones in terms of surface texture.

to my understanding, this is not true - shells can be cut in any direction, but the two tonedness depends on what direction the shells are cut in.

Originally Posted by DWFII

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Nick Horween will tell you (as he did me) that if shell is not cut properly...so that all pieces are cut/aligned in the same direction...the various components of a shoe--vamps, quarters, etc.--will seem to be different colours.
correct

Hence: (C&J for PRL)

Originally Posted by Orgetorix

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Hence: (C&J for PRL)

This looks like the dye just didn't take well on those parts of the shell. Could have been a different shell all together. Looks poor all on one shoe in my opinion.