question for the under 25 set

Originally Posted by JT82

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I wholeheartedly endorse the OP's instruction to his son. For a more effective punch, tell him to clench a size "D" battery in his fist and don't stop until that son of a ***** doesn't get up.

ok, yeah, I don't think I will do that. but thanks for playing.

Originally Posted by Dewey

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Not under 25, but a fellow parent with kids the same age. I agree it's important for kids to learn to kick ass. And to actually kick ass, to beat the **** out of someone, to win big in a physical contest.

But I disagree with the idea that you sic your kid on another kid, even if that kid is being a bully. It confuses things that should not be confused.

If you are not satisfied with your kid's physical abilities and confidence, take him to martial arts classes twice a week. There he will learn to beat on people, disable them, etc. And he'll get the chance to do that in tournaments. And the first thing he will learn is that you never use these abilities "to teach a lesson" to someone. Move, block, counter, get out of the way. If the bully comes at your kid, you kid your should be trained to move. Don't stand still and be an easy target. If the bully takes a swing, your kid should know how to block. At that point your kid should counter, if really necessary, before getting out of the way (take flight).

Schools have enough trouble without parents encouraging the little kids to see the playground as an appropriate site for macho vigilante justice.

By all means, teach your kid your man up and not be a ***** that gets picked on by bigger kids with social development disorders. But that does not mean your kid should try to beat the crap out of the bully one time on the playground. There is a time and a place for everything, and parents should not be teaching their kids to dogfight in the elementary school. My 2 cents.

If wrestling is big in your area (say you live in Iowa), then wrestling is a good alternative to martial arts. Same idea. No matter how bad your kid is, he's going to win big in a match eventually.


actually my son wrestles and practices judo. the issue is that he knows that he isn't supposed to use those outside of the dojo or club.

Originally Posted by globetrotter

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actually my son wrestles and practices judo. the issue is that he knows that he isn't supposed to use those outside of the dojo or club.
hmm. OK, as you were then. you don't need my advice. sorry for butting in.

I wouldn't recommend it. fighting/violence doesn't solve anything. It's a lose-lose situation:

1) If your kid beats him up, the other kid will harbor a resentment towards him and eventually find a way to get even.
2) If your kid gets beaten up, then he'll continued to be screwed plus now he will have additional mental trauma.

Best way to get to kids this young is through the teacher and his parents.

Originally Posted by Dewey

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hmm. OK, as you were then. you don't need my advice. sorry for butting in.

no, but in, I asked for advice. I am mostly interested in how the school reacts to it.

my wife is the president of the PTA, and freinds with the principal. and she was an acedemic, and now she's a stay at home mom. I am guessing that she never went to the principals office as a kid. I was always getting into fights, and got in trouble on a regular basis as a kid. now I am a director of sales of a medium sized company. so my fighting didn't do me any harm, and probrably did me some good. but times have changed. I just don't know how much times have changed. my wife is convinced that if my son ever hits anyone, he will end up going to a community college and waiting tables for a living, more or less. whereas I think that if he doens't learn to stand up for himself it will be worse.

so, there you go.

At my high school (I am a senior), the victim usually gets in more trouble than the attacker. A few people have tried to shove someone attacking them off and run away, which got them a longer suspension than the attacker which managed to knock some teeth out or kick you in the balls. One time someone sexually harassed me (nothing more needs to be said), I reported it and it took the school days to bother with it. And still they didn't do anything which amazes me, since this is my school... http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/features/n_9391/

hey globetrotter

as a 21-year-old with a history of this stuff, let me say that fights are absolutely normal in schools - moreso today than every - and will by no means **** up your kid's chances at anything in the long-term

the school's reaction won't be too harsh either. slap on the wrist, maybe a couple days if you have suspension-happy principals

they will, however, probably start a file or something labelling him as a potential troublemaker. i don't know how it is where you are, but here in Toronto public schools at every level (middleschool, high school etc) are integrated, so this file gets carried on into highschool

i think it's worth it

Originally Posted by oman

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hey globetrotter

as a 21-year-old with a history of this stuff, let me say that fights are absolutely normal in schools - moreso today than every - and will by no means **** up your kid's chances at anything in the long-term

the school's reaction won't be too harsh either. slap on the wrist, maybe a couple days if you have suspension-happy principals

they will, however, probably start a file or something labelling him as a potential troublemaker. i don't know how it is where you are, but here in Toronto public schools at every level (middleschool, high school etc) are integrated, so this file gets carried on into highschool

i think it's worth it

thanks, that is exactly the information that I was looking for.

Originally Posted by globetrotter

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kids don't punch that hard.
And they don't receive so well.

Originally Posted by VKK3450

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Possibly setting a dangerous precedence. You tell him to fight once and it may be hard to adust that in the future. Why is it a choice of either run crying or kicking someone who is on the ground? Seems like two extremes, neither one of which will serve one well for the rest of their life. K
This.

FWIW - I grew up rough in a steel town under a father who encouraged me to fight. If he found out some kid was hassling me and I walked away he would find the kid and make me fight. And once the kid was on the ground my father would encourage me to lay the boots into him to make sure no one else would hassle me. I became very good at fighting mostly to avoid the verbal or physical abuse from my father if I didn't.

FWIW - I grew up hating my father (for a number of reasons) and the day he died I smiled.

You want your 2nd grader to kick someone while they're down and your only concern is will he get in trouble?

lefty

"Boys will be boys."

Most of the time telling a teacher will just attract more negative attention from bullies so at that age a little whoop-ass can be very effective.

Throughout high school and elementary school I was involved in fisticuffs on quite a few occassions, and got slapped on the wrist most of the time (detentions, suspensions, calls home). The important thing is that your son gets to tell his side of the story and let the principal know he was defending himself . One particular time we were playing football in gym class and after a couple of us fell into somewhat of a pile. In the pile one kid bit me and left deep marks on my arm. After, I beat him up badly in front of a few teachers and was dragged to the prinipals office by the cop who was on duty in our school . Once I told them what had happened they let me off with no disciplinary action and the kid was suspended for a month.

It's also important that he gets the confidence to stand up for himself at a young age so when he gets older and deals with more physical bullies he isn't afraid to step to them.

As long as he doesn't look like the instigator he will probably get a talking to and a call home. Just make sure he understands physical violence is not the answer 99% of the time.

Originally Posted by lefty

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You want your 2nd grader to kick someone while they're down and your only concern is will he get in trouble?

lefty
+1

Seriously?! I can perhaps get behind the idea of having the kid stand up for himself but there has to be a limit. There's a difference between showing you won't take crap and then going overboard.

To the clown suggesting using a battery, I hope you're kidding. I try not to blatantly swear too much but I'll make an exception in this case and tell you that you're a ******* idiot.

Originally Posted by lefty

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You want your 2nd grader to kick someone while they're down and your only concern is will he get in trouble?

lefty


yeah.

there are two ways of looking at fighting - people who fight fair are, essentially, looking at fighting as a recreation. then there are people who fight because they have to, get the job done, and dont do it again unless they have to. I would rather my son belong to the later group.

my son is a nice, gentle, intellegent kid, with a whole shitload of friends. kids who were in a class with him two years ago invite him to their birthday parties. I am not worried about his being a decent person, and we invest time and effort in his being a decent, healthy, well rounded person.
school started on monday. for 3 days this week a kid in his class has been picking on him. my son has gotten him to stop, temporatily, with a little mild violence. I am not raising my son to do things in half meassures.


so, yeah, you ask if I have a problem with my son kicking a kid when he is down? I don't. it is a lot more effective to kick a kid when he is down that to kick him when he is standing, unless you are really flexible.

you know those kids who come to school in high school and shoot people? you know why they do it? because they were picked on for 10 years. I would rather my kid bloodies this bullies nose and teaches others not to **** with him, so that he can get on with life.

Originally Posted by globetrotter

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yeah.

there are two ways of looking at fighting - people who fight fair are, essentially, looking at fighting as a recreation. then there are people who fight because they have to, get the job done, and dont do it again unless they have to. I would rather my son belong to the later group.

my son is a nice, gentle, intellegent kid, with a whole shitload of friends. kids who were in a class with him two years ago invite him to their birthday parties. I am not worried about his being a decent person, and we invest time and effort in his being a decent, healthy, well rounded person.
school started on monday. for 3 days this week a kid in his class has been picking on him. my son has gotten him to stop, temporatily, with a little mild violence. I am not raising my son to do things in half meassures.


so, yeah, you ask if I have a problem with my son kicking a kid when he is down? I don't. it is a lot more effective to kick a kid when he is down that to kick him when he is standing, unless you are really flexible.

you know those kids who come to school in high school and shoot people? you know why they do it? because they were picked on for 10 years. I would rather my kid bloodies this bullies nose and teaches others not to **** with him, so that he can get on with life.

Wow...

Second grade eh?

K

Originally Posted by Jumbie

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+1 To the clown suggesting using a battery, I hope you're kidding. I try not to blatantly swear too much but I'll make an exception in this case and tell you that you're a ******* idiot.
Bear in mind I'm not the one seeking online advice as to whether encouraging my son to start fighting in school is a good idea. Ask a ridiculous question, get a ridiculous answer. BTW, i suggested two batteries.