• Hi, I am the owner and main administrator of Styleforum. If you find the forum useful and fun, please help support it by buying through the posted links on the forum. Our main, very popular sales thread, where the latest and best sales are listed, are posted HERE

    Purchases made through some of our links earns a commission for the forum and allows us to do the work of maintaining and improving it. Finally, thanks for being a part of this community. We realize that there are many choices today on the internet, and we have all of you to thank for making Styleforum the foremost destination for discussions of menswear.
  • This site contains affiliate links for which Styleforum may be compensated.
  • We would like to welcome House of Huntington as an official Affiliate Vendor. Shop past season Drake's, Nigel Cabourn, Private White V.C. and other menswear luxury brands at exceptional prices below retail. Please visit the Houise of Huntington thread and welcome them to the forum.

  • STYLE. COMMUNITY. GREAT CLOTHING.

    Bored of counting likes on social networks? At Styleforum, you’ll find rousing discussions that go beyond strings of emojis.

    Click Here to join Styleforum's thousands of style enthusiasts today!

    Styleforum is supported in part by commission earning affiliate links sitewide. Please support us by using them. You may learn more here.

question for the under 25 set

Dedalus

Distinguished Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2007
Messages
2,592
Reaction score
3
Originally Posted by globetrotter
I think that it is becoming less and less common.

You must be lucky then. My boy's a real dick, but I guess he's only 2.
 

globetrotter

Stylish Dinosaur
Joined
Sep 28, 2004
Messages
20,341
Reaction score
422
Originally Posted by philosophe
I recently picked up Shirley Brice Heath's Ways With Words: Language, Life and Work in Communities and Classrooms, which studies a group of working class white kids and a group of working class black kids. You might find it interesting. John McWhorter mentioned it in a column, so I thought I'd try to read it.


http://www.amazon.com/Ways-Words-Com.../dp/0521273196

A a matter of pedagogy, there are ways to design an inclusive, cooperative, and egalitarian classroom.


thanks, I'll get it
 

globetrotter

Stylish Dinosaur
Joined
Sep 28, 2004
Messages
20,341
Reaction score
422
Originally Posted by Dewey
Private school. I went through a public school system like you describe, and I would not put my kids through the same--if I had the choice.

My kids are in an integrated & diverse private school. The students come from nearly all economic backgrounds, and many have single parents. The student body is even portions of African American, Indian American, and white kids. But none of these kids are deprived of parental attention. And all the parents want a strong academic environment for their children. And it's all peace and harmony on the playground. The boys do play rough some times, but not to express hatred or genuine antagonism. Your bully's behavior would never be tolerated in this environment.


first of all, I am happy with the level of academics at the school district, they have very good enrichment programs and the 50% of the parents who are more supportive provide a good enviroment.

just as important, if not more important, I am happy with the level of economic as well as racial diversity. I don't need my kid to grow up in harmony, life isn't about harmony.

I learned more at school from dealing with bullies than I did from the teachers. I don't mind hatred and antagonism on the schoolyard, if they teach my son stuff.
 

tiecollector

Distinguished Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2006
Messages
6,790
Reaction score
25
Fighting should be a last resort, you don't want to turn him into a bully. Telling the teacher isn't productive always though because in life there is nobody to tell (and we all know vigilante justice is the best kind anyways). If the other kid can't take a hint though, sometimes force is the only thing that people understand. And if the school principal has a problem with it, then kick his ass during parent teacher night.
wink.gif
Also, I don't know about the part about kicking the kid when he is down. I know some kids who got in fights in the rich neighborhoods and their parents sued each other. When I was in school in a pretty bad part of town by anyone's standards. Fights were common place. In short, if this is a nicer neighborhood, you will be sued if your kid wins, throws the first punch, or somehow hurts the self esteem (or various street cred) of the other kid.
Originally Posted by Dewey
Private school. I went through a public school system like you describe, and I would not put my kids through the same--if I had the choice. My kids are in an integrated & diverse private school. The students come from nearly all economic backgrounds, and many have single parents. The student body is even portions of African American, Indian American, and white kids. But none of these kids are deprived of parental attention. And all the parents want a strong academic environment for their children. And it's all peace and harmony on the playground. The boys do play rough some times, but not to express hatred or genuine antagonism. Your bully's behavior would never be tolerated in this environment.
Anyone who goes to this school will succumb to some sort of gambling addiction (or other vice) when life slaps them in the face and they don't add up to what their textbooks say.
 

Asterix

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2005
Messages
162
Reaction score
0
Originally Posted by globetrotter
yeah. there are two ways of looking at fighting - people who fight fair are, essentially, looking at fighting as a recreation. then there are people who fight because they have to, get the job done, and dont do it again unless they have to. I would rather my son belong to the later group. my son is a nice, gentle, intellegent kid, with a whole shitload of friends. kids who were in a class with him two years ago invite him to their birthday parties. I am not worried about his being a decent person, and we invest time and effort in his being a decent, healthy, well rounded person. school started on monday. for 3 days this week a kid in his class has been picking on him. my son has gotten him to stop, temporatily, with a little mild violence. I am not raising my son to do things in half meassures. so, yeah, you ask if I have a problem with my son kicking a kid when he is down? I don't. it is a lot more effective to kick a kid when he is down that to kick him when he is standing, unless you are really flexible. you know those kids who come to school in high school and shoot people? you know why they do it? because they were picked on for 10 years. I would rather my kid bloodies this bullies nose and teaches others not to **** with him, so that he can get on with life.
You don't have to defend your stance and everybody doesn't have to support your views. I would advice my son to do the same because I did the same as a kid (I started Shotokan early enough) and it kept the bullies off me. They all actually wanted to be buddies with me after seeing their "best" beaten up. All he needs to do is give the biggest bully in the school one full fledged beat down and others would back off because they'll get the message.
 

IUtoSLU

Distinguished Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2007
Messages
2,270
Reaction score
7
Here is the answer:


Tell your kid to approach the teacher sometime when they are alone. Then have him tell the teacher thant the kid is picking on him and he wants it to stop. Then he should tell the teacher that if the kid doesn't stop picking on him by the end of the week, he is going to beat the kid up.

If there is no change by the end of the week, give your kid the go-ahead to beat the kid up in a very public space.
 

Dewey

Distinguished Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2007
Messages
3,469
Reaction score
48
Originally Posted by tiecollector
Anyone who goes to this school will succumb to some sort of gambling addiction (or other vice) when life slaps them in the face and they don't add up to what their textbooks say.
OK, thanks. Comments like this are why we shouldn't discuss these things on the internet. I'll convince myself you failed at being funny and move on.
 

connor

Distinguished Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2009
Messages
1,634
Reaction score
2
at my HS they have a "you throw, you go" policy. so even if its self defense, you get taken up and probably get suspended for a day or something. ive been in a couple fights AT school, but for the most part people keep it quiet unless its like in the quad. people get on me i'm not gonna let them think they're bigger... idk. most of the fighting in HS happens after school anyways

kids should fight.
 

Mr T

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2007
Messages
858
Reaction score
1
I taught my daughter from an early age that she has a natural right to defend herself and that schools can't take away that right. If someone physically assaults her I will support her regardless of any politically correct punishment a school district tries to apply.
 

JLibourel

Distinguished Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2004
Messages
8,287
Reaction score
501
I'd encourage a young son of mine to punch out a bully or trouble maker, but encouraging him to kick him when he was down strikes me as excessive.

Back in my day we had some notions of "fair fighting" versus "dirty fighting." Fair fighting at school seldom brought about official repercussions. Dirty fighting (kicking, strangling, gouging) probably would have. I think that was a better era.

I know when I was in England 45 years ago, giving someone the boot in a fight was likely to get you in trouble with the law if an injury resulted--much more probably than anything resulting from fisticuffs.

I don't know what the laws are about this in California. I do know that our laws governing self-defense with weapons are surprisingly permissive--probably a legacy of our Gold Rush past.
 

Mr T

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2007
Messages
858
Reaction score
1
Originally Posted by JLibourel
I don't know what the laws are about this in California. I do know that our laws governing self-defense with weapons are surprisingly permissive--probably a legacy of our Gold Rush past.
Unfortunately, school district policy rarely follows state law regarding self defense. Texas has arguably the most permissive Castle laws in the Union. Yet, in my daughter's school district, ANY fighting (to include self defense) would result in a suspension. I venture CA schools are similar. I remember oftentimes becoming friends with the boys I fought. Of course, in the 1970's there was no concept that the other kid might return with a gun and start shooting.
 

dfagdfsh

Professional Style Farmer
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
22,649
Reaction score
7,932
there's a middle ground between being a ***** and taking **** and fighting. there are other ways to get back at this kid.
 

SField

Distinguished Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2008
Messages
6,139
Reaction score
24
You know, him beating up this one kid isn't going to stop anything. I think you've seen too many bad prison movies or something. He's in grade 2 man. Unless he really knows how to hit someone, it's just going to be a little shoving match with some tumbling around till the fight gets stopped 3 seconds later by a teacher.

School doesn't just work like "o wow, that kid punched out the other kid, let's not **** with him". Unless your child unscrews the metal container that holds shavings from the pencil sharpener or uses a ******* stapler to pistol whip the kid, it isn't really going to do much. In all likihood it will breed more animosity and lead to more fighting.

My question is why, if your kid has all these friends, is this kid able to bully your son? The whole deal of a bully being a loner in my experience doesn't exist. Usually it's the cool kids picking on the fat/nerdy/dork kids. People with friends, unless it's a sort of minority group (as in the 'nerds' etc..) don't really get picked on. If your kid is being picked on now, it is extremely likely that even if he beat this one kid up, he'd be picked on a month from now. One incident in grade 2 isn't going to change ****. In fact, every weirdo I ever knew who got picked on like crazy had at least one incident where they went totally apeshit and fucked up some jock/'cool kid' or whatever. That didn't alter any perceptions whatsoever and didn't prevent teasing in any way.

So in conclusion, I must ask how the hell is this kid able to bully your son? In a normally functioning school yard hierarchy, the bullying kid, if your son was popular or had any kind of group of friends, would be ostracized and himself severely bullied. Gym class, recess and school trips being the obvious venues. So my conclusion is either that your son is in fact far lower in the social hierarchy than you think, or that this is a complete anomaly that defies every convention ever.
 

Featured Sponsor

How important is full vs half canvas to you for heavier sport jackets?

  • Definitely full canvas only

    Votes: 55 35.3%
  • Half canvas is fine

    Votes: 61 39.1%
  • Really don't care

    Votes: 17 10.9%
  • Depends on fabric

    Votes: 27 17.3%
  • Depends on price

    Votes: 28 17.9%

Forum statistics

Threads
505,206
Messages
10,579,285
Members
223,891
Latest member
tuga1
Top