question for the under 25 set

[globetrotter]

ok, guys, here is a question I just dont know the answer to.

what happens in american school now when you fight? on the one hand it seems like they throw you into juvenile correctional and you are fucked for life. on the other hand, when I was a kid, it was perfectly normal.

here's the thing - my son is in second grade. first week of school. a kid in his class was bothering him. my wife said basically "stay away from the kid, tell the teacher" I said "make him cry, punch him and then wrestle his legs out from under him and then kick him a few times" I figure that a trip to the principals office in second grade won't do anything to his record, letting some kid pick on him could make him misrable for years.

anybody who graduated in the past few years have some input on this?

 

[wilson brother]

Hey man-


I believe in taking a stand

but I think I guy like you needs to see a head shrink for teaching that violence to children

. Do you want to build society

on aggression?



-Danny Wilson (the Guy)

 

[CDFS]

Sometimes violence is the answer. But isn't there a middle ground? Punch the guy onc/twice...?

 

[MetroStyles]

Encourage him to fight but not to go over the top. As soon as you've "won", lay off.

 

[VKK3450]

Possibly setting a dangerous precedence. You tell him to fight once and it may be hard to adust that in the future.

Why is it a choice of either run crying or kicking someone who is on the ground?

Seems like two extremes, neither one of which will serve one well for the rest of their life.

K

 

[globetrotter]

Originally Posted by CDFS

Sometimes violence is the answer. But isn't there a middle ground? Punch the guy onc/twice...?

kids don't punch that hard.

 

[oDD_LotS]

From what my Mom tells me (teaches in the same school system I graduated from), it largely depends on the school. I think most, though, have zero tolerance policies that can be fairly draconian and impose some severe penalties.

I would like to think that they're a little less ridiculous in their punishment at that age, though. I mean fighting is almost a rite of passage ESPECIALLY that young.

 

[Bhowie]

Once you hit junior high the penalty for fighting becomes much more severe. Grade school is ok and I dont see a problem with what you are teaching him. If he plays organized sports he can get away with fighting at practice even in high school.

 

[Thomas]

ahem.

We know of a boy who (just finished second grade) has been the instigator of a number of playground fights, and has assaulted a couple of teachers as well. For hitting other kids, nothing much has happened, but for his most epic bender (hit 6 kids, one teacher, and swung at another), he was suspended three days and moved to an alt-program for six weeks. The school district continued to try to re-mainstream him. But he's nine now.

When he turns ten, the world turns upside down and our school district will ticket him for any fighting at all - he and a parent/guardian will have to go to court each time this happens, and I do not (yet) know what the consequences of said ticket will be.

So, in our district, even defending yourself vigorously will cost you. But - personally speaking - you should kick someone's ass - someone who deserves a good kicking - at least once in your life, and if you do it well enough you shouldn't have to do it too often in the future.

 

[globetrotter]

Originally Posted by Thomas

you should kick someone's ass - someone who deserves a good kicking - at least once in your life, and if you do it well enough you shouldn't have to do it too often in the future.


that is pretty much what I told my wife - I said that if my son does a good job with this kid, he probrably won't have to raise his hands for the rest of elementary school.

 

[philosophe]

Originally Posted by globetrotter

that is pretty much what I told my wife - I said that if my son does a good job with this kid, he probrably won't have to raise his hands for the rest of elementary school.

Yes, but if the school staff sees what's going on, your son will be tagged as a troublemaker.

Why not tell your son to tell the other kid to buzz off? If your radiates confidence, that'll probably do the job. The provocateur is just a little shi$t.

 

[dhc905]

From my experience, nothing really happens. I got in a couple fights in elementary school and nothing beyond a call to the parents happened. In middle school we had "demerits", which in retrospect is pretty funny term, which we got for fighting. I think it ranged from 5-10 demerits depending on the fight, the instigator, and the bodily harm. 20 demerits and you were excluded from school dances and functions. The good thing was that if you didn't do anything bad for a week, you lost a demerit. With three weeks left before graduating 8th grade, I had 22 demerits. I raised hell at the graduation party

 

[JT82]

If I could do it all over again, I would have thrown a lot more fists in the days of my early education.

 

[Dewey]

Not under 25, but a fellow parent with kids the same age. I agree it's important for kids to learn to kick ass. And to actually kick ass, to beat the **** out of someone, to win big in a physical contest.

But I disagree with the idea that you sic your kid on another kid, even if that kid is being a bully. It confuses things that should not be confused.

If you are not satisfied with your kid's physical abilities and confidence, take him to martial arts classes twice a week. There he will learn to beat on people, disable them, etc. And he'll get the chance to do that in tournaments. And the first thing he will learn is that you never use these abilities "to teach a lesson" to someone. Move, block, counter, get out of the way. If the bully comes at your kid, you kid your should be trained to move. Don't stand still and be an easy target. If the bully takes a swing, your kid should know how to block. At that point your kid should counter, if really necessary, before getting out of the way (take flight).

Schools have enough trouble without parents encouraging the little kids to see the playground as an appropriate site for macho vigilante justice.

So by all means, teach your kid your man up and not be a ***** that gets picked on by bigger kids with social development disorders. But that does not mean your kid should try to beat the crap out of the bully one time on the playground. There is a time and a place for everything, and parents should not be teaching their kids to dogfight in the elementary school.

My second-grade girl is in the 10th percentile for size at her age, and she only has a yellow belt, and still I would never ever want her striking someone at school. She could seriously hurt someone, and that could happen by accident.

If wrestling is big in your area (say you live in Iowa), then wrestling is a good alternative to martial arts. Same idea. No matter how bad your kid is, he's going to win big in a match eventually.

 

[Thomas]

Originally Posted by philosophe

Yes, but if the school staff sees what's going on, your son will be tagged as a troublemaker.

Why not tell your son to tell the other kid to buzz off? If your radiates confidence, that'll probably do the job. The provocateur is just a little shi$t.

One time - if it's good - shouldn't be all that big a problem unless you have some pacifist principal at the helm. It's more a repeated pattern that raises eyebrows.

Originally Posted by JT82

If I could do it all over again, I would have thrown a lot more fists in the days of my early education.

I wholeheartedly endorse the OP's instruction to his son. For a more effective punch, tell him to clench a size "D" battery in his fist and don't stop until that son of a ***** doesn't get up.

This, however, I would not endorse - neither the battery nor the thorough beat-down. Bare fists could easily be attributed to self-defense or 'heat of the moment'. Having that battery can be seen as a) premeditated and b) wants to cause injury. Those will raise eyebrows, IMHO.