US Passes France In Wine Consumption

foodguy · Mar 16, 2011

Originally Posted by Piobaire

I've found that some people scoff at the concept of a great Zin. Grape gets no respect.
the relative absence of examples, does not mean the rule is wrong. i find most zins to be made in a style that is over-ripe, over-extracted and over-alcoholic. but i have had some that were quite great. unfortunately, those are not the ones that usually get top scores.
on zin: i recently did a cioppino dinner, trying to figure out what wine was best ... just for fun, opened a bunch of stuff, white and red. my favorite was a $10 zinfandel. my least favorite was a $25 zinfandel. one was light, tart, clean fruit; the other, particularly with the food, all i could taste was that awful coffee/coca cola undertaste.

Piobaire · Mar 16, 2011

Originally Posted by Manton

Judgment of Paris!! USA! USA! USA!

gomestar · Mar 16, 2011

Originally Posted by Manton

I've never hada CA pinot that I thought came close to a great Burg. The best KBs and SSs are very good but A) not that good and B) totally different in style, more different than a Napa Cab is from a Bordeaux.
+1. Especially the emphasis on totally different in style.

Originally Posted by iammatt

OK, I agree with your definition, but I don't agree that the US makes a lot of world class wine. I think we could, but our interests lie elsewhere.
+1

Originally Posted by Mark from Plano

Isn't the problem increasingly that it's difficult to find a great Burg for less than $$$$. I mean I can name one or two reasonably priced ones and one or two hundred that are ****. "Burg Disappointment" is a well established phenomenon. There are any number of Cali Pinots I'd reach for before going after a mid-priced Burg right now. Is that world-class? Not necessisarily, but lots of Burg is selling more off reputation right now than off actual quality, IMO.

Or maybe we just can't get good mid-priced Burg here in the sticks.
Burg is notoriously finicky. But when it's truly great, it's unmatched, and as I've said before it's all part of the allure that keeps men of reasonable intelligence coming back to play the game.

Manton · Mar 16, 2011

There is a longstanding prejudice against Zin in the CA wine country going back to Prohibition days. It was always most grown by the Italians who dominated the Valley. It was considered very cheap and strong but not elegant. During Prohibition, crushing one's own wine was legal in certain quantities. The Italians survived by selling Zin (and other cheap grapes) to Italians throughout the country who crushed and fermented basement wine. This was considered very immigrant and downmarket.

Zin never really recovered from that. It's always been considered a cheap grape for mass consumption by lowbrows.

foodguy · Mar 16, 2011

zinfandel was considered a "farmer grape" as opposed to a winemaker grape. it was usually planted as the dominant partner in field blends -- highly productive, deeply colored reds that could easily be made into cheap everyday red wines. that's the historical. the current, i think, is also based on the likes of turley, etc., who brag that their table zins "only" have 16.5% alcohol.

Manton · Mar 16, 2011

There was a time, maybe 20 years ago, when "Late Harvest Zinfandels" were rare and prized. They were kind of neat because they were not typical. Now, everyone does it.

Mark from Plano · Mar 16, 2011

Originally Posted by gomestar

Burg is notoriously finicky. But when it's truly great, it's unmatched, and as I've said before it's all part of the allure that keeps men of reasonable intelligence coming back to play the game.

Saying that it's finicky though strikes me as unduely kind. Why can't we admit that most (or a lot) of Burg is just ****** wine? It's either watery or bret infested or both. It's as if the aura of Burg overwhelms us and we can't just admit that they make a lot of crap there. Yes, the good stuff is great, but it seems to be a few diamonds buried in a big pile of manure. Worth searching for? Yes. But I'm not certain that the aura of Burg really matches the reality in most cases.

I'm thrilled to be proven wrong though. Just give me some names of some reasonably priced Burgs I can reasonably expect to find in a decent wine store.

Manton · Mar 16, 2011

I wouldn't say that most is bad, though I believe that most is overpriced.

gomestar · Mar 16, 2011

Originally Posted by Mark from Plano

Saying that it's finicky though strikes me as unduely kind. Why can't we admit that most (or a lot) of Burg is just ****** wine? It's either watery or bret infested or both. It's as if the aura of Burg overwhelms us and we can't just admit that they make a lot of crap there. Yes, the good stuff is great, but it seems to be a few diamonds buried in a big pile of manure. Worth searching for? Yes. But I'm not certain that the aura of Burg really matches the reality in most cases.

I'm thrilled to be proven wrong though.

I mean, I don't think that most Burg is ****** wine. I popped a $39 bottle that was awesome, and awesome enough that I forced Manton to go buy a bottle and he thought it was awesome. The Drouhin I bought last week was also super. Have I been burned on $50 Burg? Yup. Have a lot of people? Yup (but not Matt apparently

). But I think familiarity with a few producers/importers goes a long way as does a good relationship with somebody at a good store.

gomestar · Mar 16, 2011

Originally Posted by Manton

I wouldn't say that most is bad, though I believe that most is overpriced.

yeah, it does get expensive. A shame.

Gus · Mar 16, 2011

Originally Posted by iammatt

but I don't agree that the US makes a lot of world class wine. I think we could, but our interests lie elsewhere.

Were did the heavy oak flavor in California Chardonnay come from?

Mark from Plano · Mar 16, 2011

I will say that I had some 2006 Bouchard Beaune du Chateau ($37 with tax) that I thought was fantastic, but I've only ever found it at one shop in this area that is way out in the far suburbs and I can't seem to get back over there to buy up the rest of their stock. Mostly I find myself chasing the Burgundy Dragon and winding up with stuff that I end up regretting or, in some cases just pouring out or using to cook with.

I actually have a lot better success finding Cru Beaujolais that I like.

foodguy · Mar 16, 2011

a truly great burgundy is a grail wine. but as someone who has been drinking a lot over a long time, what i'd really like to see is more appreciation for wines that are simply delicious. i do still enjoy occasionally finding a wine that people get up and make speeches about, but there is absolutely nothing wrong -- not even "lesser" -- about wines that just make you really, really happy.

itsstillmatt · Mar 16, 2011

Originally Posted by foodguy

a truly great burgundy is a grail wine. but as someone who has been drinking a lot over a long time, what i'd really like to see is more appreciation for wines that are simply delicious. i do still enjoy occasionally finding a wine that people get up and make speeches about, but there is absolutely nothing wrong -- not even "lesser" -- about wines that just make you really, really happy.

Like the great Crus Beaujolais! Unloved, but delicious.

foodguy · Mar 16, 2011

Originally Posted by Mark from Plano

I actually have a lot better success finding Cru Beaujolais that I like.

the '09 beaujolais vintage is truly phenomenal. these are perfect examples of what i was saying about delicious wines that just make you happy. anyone who hasn't picked up a case or two of these is really missing the boat. a cru wine from a great producer is terrific, but even dubouef's are great.

US Passes France In Wine Consumption

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