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US Passes France In Wine Consumption

kwilkinson

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Originally Posted by foodguy
arguing all this, it struck me ... do you think any other wine producing country brags that their wines are world-class? maybe southern hemisphere, i guess ...

Wait until you speak to an Italian winemaker.
 

Manton

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Originally Posted by kwilkinson
I think if it stands out amongst its peer group, then it can be considered world class. When you think of great Pinot, a few names from California, Oregon, and even one or two from NZ can stand with some of the greatest Burgundies. That, to me, is world class. There is something to be said for varietal typicity, but I don't think that strange or esoteric winemaking practices exclude a producer from being world class.

I've never hada CA pinot that I thought came close to a great Burg. The best KBs and SSs are very good but A) not that good and B) totally different in style, more different than a Napa Cab is from a Bordeaux.
 

foodguy

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Originally Posted by Manton
This is, as you know, the product of an ancient CA/Napa inferiority complex. They still feel the need to assert it because they are not sure they believe it.

my point exactly.
 

itsstillmatt

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Originally Posted by kwilkinson
I think if it stands out amongst its peer group, then it can be considered world class. When you think of great Pinot, a few names from California, Oregon, and even one or two from NZ can stand with some of the greatest Burgundies. That, to me, is world class. There is something to be said for varietal typicity, but I don't think that strange or esoteric winemaking practices exclude a producer from being world class.
OK, I agree with your definition, but I don't agree that the US makes a lot of world class wine. I think we could, but our interests lie elsewhere.
 

mordecai

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I believe that user holymadness is a fan of California wines. Perhaps he can add to the discussion.
 

kwilkinson

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Originally Posted by Manton
I've never hada CA pinot that I thought came close to a great Burg. The best KBs and SSs are very good but A) not that good and B) totally different in style, more different than a Napa Cab is from a Bordeaux.

Sure, "greatest burgundies" was hyperbole, as there's no doubt that the greatest burgundies are unmatchable for Pinot. But being totally different in style doesn't mean that it isn't "world class."
 

foodguy

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Originally Posted by kwilkinson
Wait until you speak to an Italian winemaker.

no offense my young friend, but i have been talking to italian winemakers since before super-tuscans were even thought of. i knew aldo conterno when even I could afford aldo conterno.
 

kwilkinson

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Originally Posted by foodguy
no offense my young friend, but i have been talking to italian winemakers since before super-tuscans were even thought of. i knew aldo conterno when even I could afford aldo conterno.
Yes, I knew you know a lot of Italian wine producers, I was just poking the old bear. But thinking that domestic wines are world class is definitely not an American phenomenon.
 

Mark from Plano

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Originally Posted by Manton
I've never hada CA pinot that I thought came close to a great Burg. The best KBs and SSs are very good but A) not that good and B) totally different in style, more different than a Napa Cab is from a Bordeaux.

Isn't the problem increasingly that it's difficult to find a great Burg for less than $$$$. I mean I can name one or two reasonably priced ones and one or two hundred that are ****. "Burg Disappointment" is a well established phenomenon. There are any number of Cali Pinots I'd reach for before going after a mid-priced Burg right now. Is that world-class? Not necessisarily, but lots of Burg is selling more off reputation right now than off actual quality, IMO.

Or maybe we just can't get good mid-priced Burg here in the sticks.
 

Piobaire

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Originally Posted by foodguy
this is silly. if a blend can be world-class, why can't a single variety, if it's well-made.

I've found that some people scoff at the concept of a great Zin. Grape gets no respect.
 

Manton

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Yeah, it's a serious problem. However, once a month or two I roll the dice and drop $50-$100 on a Burg. I never do that with CA Pinot. It's not that I don't like it. I will drink it. I just never seek it.
 

foodguy

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Originally Posted by kwilkinson
Yes, I knew you know a lot of Italian wine producers, I was just poking the old bear. But thinking that domestic wines are world class is definitely not an American phenomenon.

my young cub, there's a difference between believing your wines are world-class, and feeling the need to have it proclaimed.
 

Piobaire

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Originally Posted by foodguy
arguing all this, it struck me ... do you think any other wine producing country brags that their wines are world-class? maybe southern hemisphere, i guess ...

This is just part of the US psyche. It's why I still have to hear about the eff'ing "Miracle On Ice" thirty years later.
 

kwilkinson

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Originally Posted by foodguy
my young cub, there's a difference between believing your wines are world-class, and feeling the need to have it proclaimed.

Kinda like how I know I'm awesome but never feel good about it unless people on here tell me.
frown.gif
 

Manton

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Originally Posted by Piobaire
This is just part of the US psyche. It's why I still have to hear about the eff'ing "Miracle On Ice" thirty years later.

Judgment of Paris!! USA! USA! USA!
 

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