Why We Get Fat

Originally Posted by shibbel

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Again read the book, that is one of his points.

So that's what, one valid point for how many invalid ones?

Originally Posted by indesertum

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here is george bray review of GCBC in the obesity journal (peer reviewed) http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/w...ew-of-gcbc.pdf dude totally rips the book apart.
Taubes responded to Bray here: http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/w...ob-reviews.pdf There's a bit of back-and-forth between the two on that blog. http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/w...ing-from-bray/ etc.

^nice post. I could almost hear the crack in the ***** slap GT administered in that letter.

Originally Posted by Cool The Kid

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The onus is still on the consumer to manage their own daily calorie intake to stay at a healthy weight. Blaming the food is bogus, just cause you bought a box of Ho Hos doesn't mean you have to eat it in one sitting.

No one should eat a Ho Ho.

All this yammering back and forth on what is or is not the right thing to eat or what does or does not make you fat is rather pointless -- there is only one thing that matters: what works for you? It wouldn't surprise me if there is a wide variation in individual responses to the same environment, just like every other human genetic-environment interaction.

For me, least sugar is best. YMMV

This guy might be on to something: http://chc.ucsf.edu/coast/faculty_lustig.htm

Originally Posted by JohnnyLaw

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You get fat when you overeat and don't exercise. There, I saved you $15.

You could not be more wrong.

Read the book. Then read Good Calories, Bad Calories. Then read The Primal Blueprint and ascribe yourself to reading the blog MarksDailyApple.com. Then read Whole9life.com and The Omnivore's Dilemma. Get yourself acquainted with science, not what the media tells you.

Thanks for sharing your uneducated view of how to stay healthy.

It all comes down to hormones and insulin. These concepts changed my life. I was always weight conscious: I used to work out all the time, try to eat "right" and would constantly hover between 10-12% bodyfat. I switched to eating "primally" (see the blog) and I feel better, am stronger than ever before, have near perfect vitals (yes, I've had blood work done since I started eating this way) and hover between 6-8% body fat now. I am not super diligent with it, so I don't have a full-out six pack, but I do have a four pack and those major veins coming up my biceps when I'm exerting myself . My clothing fits better than ever.

Originally Posted by BBSLM

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Taubes is full of ****, cherry-picks his sources, and built his argument in GCBC on the false premise that fat people dont eat more than lean people, basing it on false data from the 80s. He's a disingeuous douche and his books are a joke.

Anyone can make an argument that sounds convincing to someone who doesnt know any better. Just look at the bible.

Again, you are completely wrong. Most of his research stems from European scientists who began studying hormones as far back as the 1920s. It's always been known that carbohydrates in excess cause weight gain, not fat. And it is scientific fact that insulin secretion, in excess, causes fat retention. Taubes simply connects the dots between a boatload of scientific studies, and debunks - quite thoroughly, imo - the conventional wisdom re: what is healthy.

If my health (and my wife's) didn't drastically improve by cutting out most carbohydrates in our diet, I'd be less of a believer. But the difference in the quality of my life has been mind blowing.

Originally Posted by RedLantern

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This. I dont think anyone was saying that eating a certain type of food will make you fat, more like if you are trying to get or remain slim, eating certain foods (like foods you have to prepare for yourself) will make it easier to manage caloric intake.


Ugh, again, I disagree. I have consumed 5k+ calories/day for a week eating fewer than 150g/carbohydrates, and didn't gain a pound. I certainly did not expend that much while lounging on the beach.

Taubes book details the laws of Thermodynamics well which can help you understand why calories in/calories out is too simple an equation to attach to the human body. The body is simply far more complex than anyone knows - there are so many variables that contribute to weight gain/loss that caloric consumption/use is a red herring. Stress, environmental factors, sleep, and so many more factors are attributed to health and weight loss/gain.

Trying to simplify the functionality of the human body is a stupid American ideal.

You want to look your best? Eat food that comes from nature, exercise, have fun, ********, sleep well and don't worry so much.

Originally Posted by Roguls

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It all comes down to hormones and insulin. These concepts changed my life. I was always weight conscious: I used to work out all the time, try to eat "right" and would constantly hover between 10-12% bodyfat. I switched to eating "primally" (see the blog) and I feel better, am stronger than ever before, have near perfect vitals (yes, I've had blood work done since I started eating this way) and hover between 6-8% body fat now. I am not super diligent with it, so I don't have a full-out six pack, but I do have a four pack and those major veins coming up my biceps when I'm exerting myself

. My clothing fits better than ever.

So you exercised and didn't overeat and you weren't fat?

Originally Posted by Roguls

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You could not be more wrong.
So overeating and not exercising are how to keep thin????? It's hard not to go back and forth with people so adamant about being so wrong

I'm a Type 1 diabetic, so I have direct knowledge of exactly how much insulin goes into my body every day. (yesterday was 40.55 units, 24.44 as basal and the balance for meals) I've gotten some insight into the role insulin plays in weight loss because of this.

Years ago, I had gained a decent amount of weight over a lazy summer, simply from eating too much. I found the weight very difficult to get off, and mistakenly attributed it to insulin at the time. Looking back, the insulin was driving me to eat. Insulin lowers blood sugar levels, which makes you eat. I was staying fat because I was eating too much, and the excess insulin levels were making that condition harder to remedy.

I switched insulins about a year after that, part of the switch was changing the dosing. I pretty much melted, lost 35 lbs in six weeks without effort. Upon consideration, I realized I was no longer eating to excess, which drove the weight loss. The low insulin levels made this happen faster, but without a caloric deficit, I would not have lost weight.

I've experiment since with low carb/mod carb diets (I can't successfully pull off keto, always end up running my sugar low and having to eat carbs at some point). Low carbs works in the sense that it removes most of the bullshit snack foods that I like to eat. This lowers calories, now that I'm in a deficit, the low level of insulin allows me to lose weight quickly. The weeks where I overeat, even with low insulin levels, I don't lose weight.


My guess on most people who think they can all of a sudden lose weight without effort on low carb diets: they are not really accounting for calories accurately, and they are simply eating less, likely because they normally cheat with carbs. Remove carbs from the equation, cheating gets less likely, weight loss happens. This makes sense from a human perspective, and from a thermodynamics perspective.

Self reporting of calories is all but useless, individual success on dieting revolves around finding a system where you don't have to be strictly monitoring every morsel you eat or don't eat all day.

"Do they get fatter because they overeat, as Bray continues to imply, or do they overeat because they're getting fatter."

seriously?

i mean shibbel do you agree with taubes that fatties overeat because they're getting fatter and not the other way around?

also at the other dude who jumped in

insulin is NOT known to cause fat retention by itself. insulin is known to cause fat retention with an excess of glucose in the bloodstream. insulin does not magically cause fat retention by itself

Originally Posted by Cool The Kid

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So overeating and not exercising are how to keep thin?????

It's hard not to go back and forth with people so adamant about being so wrong
I took off nearly 8 months with an injury and did this, didn't gain a pound.

Originally Posted by indesertum

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i mean shibbel do you agree with taubes that fatties overeat because they're getting fatter and not the other way around?f
Obviously, when GT says this, it applies to people who can't lose weight no matter how much they restrict calories sans starvation. There's also people out there that are fat because they overeat. With many though, yes I agree, and the science he sights from Germany supporting this is solid. You LM backers continue to miss GTs points, and fail at realizing GCBC is deeper than just ones weight and is more about actual health. I should also note that there's a reason guys like Taubes, Mark Sisson, and Robb Wolf are in the lime light right now, while other bloggers mentioned are the fringe- they get sustainable results for real people. Not just bodybuilders.

Originally Posted by eg1

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No one should eat a Ho Ho.

All this yammering back and forth on what is or is not the right thing to eat or what does or does not make you fat is rather pointless -- there is only one thing that matters: what works for you? It wouldn't surprise me if there is a wide variation in individual responses to the same environment, just like every other human genetic-environment interaction.

For me, least sugar is best. YMMV

This guy might be on to something: http://chc.ucsf.edu/coast/faculty_lustig.htm

nothing wrong with a hoho as long as you dont ten everyday

lustig is the dude that claims sugar and HCFS are bad for you because fructose is bad for you.
who doesn't know this?

Originally Posted by shibbel

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I took off nearly 8 months with an injury and did this, didn't gain a pound.
Tell me what doesn't make sense about this sentence: "I overate for 8 months and did not gain any weight" Ummm... clearly you weren't overeating One thing I will say though is simple carbs definitely don't satiate as well as other macros or complex sugars, so if one's diet is primarily comprised of them, w/no calorie control its definitely easier to overeat. However, obv once calorie control is implemented, weight gain/loss can be controlled... for example, for the past 6 months or so I've been in a slow bulk w/my carbs being comprised primarily of a mix of "good" carbs like potatoes and whole grain **** and also "bad, make you obese even if you eat in a deficit" carbs like cake and cookies, and my weight has damn near stayed level (1# a month on avg). mrchariybrown eats a good 10Kkcals off crap once a week and his weight is in check. There are plenty of pretty conspicuous examples of people who eat "crap out of a box" on a regular basis who are not obese and aren't ectomorphs Nobody is arguing the health ramifications of processed food vs natural food... but the idea that some macros or foods have "magic calories" or effects that prohibit weight loss when eaten in gross excess, while others have "evil calories" or effects that grossly accelerate weight gain even when eaten in a deficit is absurd. Weight gain is caused by eating in excess, "evil calories" in moderation won't make you fat, period

Originally Posted by Cool The Kid

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Tell me what doesn't make sense about this sentence: "I overate for 8 months and did not gain any weight" Ummm... clearly you weren't overeating

One thing I will say though is simple carbs definitely don't satiate as well as other macros or complex sugars, so if one's diet is primarily comprised of them, w/no calorie control its definitely easier to overeat. However, obv once calorie control is implemented, weight gain/loss can be controlled... for example, for the past 6 months or so I've been in a slow bulk w/my carbs being comprised primarily of a mix of "good" carbs like potatoes and whole grain **** and also "bad, make you obese even if you eat in a deficit" carbs like cake and cookies, and my weight has damn near stayed level (1# a month on avg). mrchariybrown eats a good 10Kkcals off crap once a week and his weight is in check. There are plenty of pretty conspicuous examples of people who eat "crap out of a box" on a regular basis who are not obese and aren't ectomorphs Nobody is arguing the health ramifications of processed food vs natural food... but the idea that some macros or foods have "magic calories" or effects that prohibit weight loss when eaten in gross excess, while others have "evil calories" or effects that grossly accelerate weight gain even when eaten in a deficit is absurd. Weight gain is caused by eating in excess, "evil calories" in moderation won't make you fat, period
Believe it or not, your choice. Go to any Paleo/Primal forum, and you'll find similar results replicated time and time again. If I'm not training and consume 3,000kcals of a diet akin to yours I'll gain weight- if I eat that same amount of cals while eliminating sugars/most fruits/starchy carbs, I don't. I do not doubt the results you, and guys like charly get from your diets- I used that method for years and as I said before, had excellent results. The reason I left those habits behind had to do with long term health and the inconvenience of weighing/counting/suffering, not an inability to stay lean. You should also look into the "whole grain" myth, you're better off eating white bread/rice.