Is there a market for high-end shoes in Toronto?

Originally Posted by TRINI

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Because it's hard to try things on over the internet?
I mean physically go to the source. For years ... that's what we all did with our shoemakers, tailors, etc. For truly fine merchandise ... it's worth the effort.

You've got a whole thread with people whining prices are too high and you want them to go direct and pay FULL retail? Give your head a shake.

Originally Posted by RSS

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I mean physically go to the source. For years ... that's what we all did with our shoemakers, tailors, etc. For truly fine merchandise ... it's worth the effort.

This is what I've decided to do. Next time I'm in NY I plan to spend an afternoon at Leffot sorting out which lasts fit my foot and what size I am in the various models. After that, it is simply a matter of ordering what I want when circumstances allow.

As it stands, I'm trying to convince the Mrs. that we need a side-trip to Budapest to check out Vass during our trip to Italy this summer.

There is a market for high-end shoes in Toronto. But not men's high-end shoes.

Go onto Yonge Street or an uspcale mall and you will find plenty of stores selling expensive women's shoes. Men don't seem to care.

Harry Young (on Front Street downtown and Yonge Street uptown) probably has the best men's selection. But I'll bet his sales are 80-90% women's shoes.

Much of the chatter on this thread seems to be general complaints about Canada and Canadians. Fair enough. Keep in mind, however, that there's a strong market for luxury cars, luxury homes, luxury cottages, and overpriced hockey tickets - in Toronto, anyway.

I think most men in Toronto don't care about fashion, and, speaking personally, shoes were still a bit of an afterthought long after I cared about how I dressed. And, as others have mentioned, the climate isn't helpful.

The tax climate is also unhelpful. I have purchased shoes (from USA) and shirts (from UK) online this month and both were tax free. (The UK shirtmaker actually deducted the VAT.) Compare that with the 13% added on to already high retail prices at Canadian retailers.)

BTW, a couple of posters have confused "Dack's", the men's shoe maker that recently filed for bankruptcy, with "Daks", the very-much-alive British men's clothier.

Originally Posted by Nicola

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You've got a whole thread with people whining prices are too high and you want them to go direct and pay FULL retail? Give your head a shake.
If they don't want to go to the source and pay full retail ... they should lower their expectations.

Originally Posted by Doxe

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As it stands, I'm trying to convince the Mrs. that we need a side-trip to Budapest to check out Vass during our trip to Italy this summer.

Now that's the way to do it. The city and Vass are worth a visit. Although ... Vass can be had in other locations ... as I'm sure you know.

Originally Posted by Doxe

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I topy'd all my shoes. I'm from Vancouver originally and leather soled shoes in a temperate rainforest climate do not work. I know topy is supposed to be bad for your shoes, but it keeps your feet dry and prevents the shoes from wearing out.

When it snows I wear a pair of wellington boots. It looks silly at first. That is until I walk through a snowbank without doing the silly hop that people do to avoid the slush.

As for jackets, I have a monstrous MEC sky-blue down jacket that comes down past my butt for when the temp. drops to -20C. Again, I look like a fool - but I'm a warm fool. Only teenagers refuse to wear sensible jackets when the wind chill is cold enough to freeze the cat to the porch.

Dont worry - I dont freeze too often. I end up layering ... suit jacket, woollen vests et al and it works out. But it would be nice to have a really warm overcoat that looked half decent and did constitute fur of any kind.

I may investigate topy's when I have better shoes. I dont think my shoes are worth topying!

Post MBA - some serious upgrades to the wardrobe.

Originally Posted by holymadness

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I don't see how you can deny it. I worked in the Calgary downtown core for three years before moving away and never observed any particular attention to dress among wealthy oil-patch office workers. Nor have I ever, in a lifetime passed in major Canadian cities, seen more than one person in a thousand wear anything other than a t-shirt and jeans on the weekend. The only time you see a jacket is on club-hoppers who spring for the shiniest black H&M sport coat available, along with the squarest-toed shoes a protractor and the hand of man can create. As for a cultural vacuum, I would be sincerely interested in what you think Canada's unique contribution to the world is because frankly, from over here, the differences between it and the USA are imperceptible, even if those molehills are made into mountains by Canadians suffering from massive inferiority complexes. Northrop Frye was a recognizable and internationally-respected public intellectual. Who's filling his shoes these days? Naomi Klein?

It's not a purely economic argument. In lieu of its nonexistent clothing culture, Canada lacks the raw capital to make it an enticing market. There is a reason that people in Vienna dress nicely even though Austria's population is a paltry 8 million. There is also a reason that Milan is home to a thousandfold better-dressed men than New York, despite the enormous disparity in size and incomes between the two. People are simply willing and eager to dress a certain way there, and to spend money to do so. Weather isn't that convincing a reason, Vancouver being a prime example. If you're willing to drop $450 on AE and brave the elements, there's no rational reason why you wouldn't drop $600 on C&J and do the same. Considering the dominance of car culture in Canada, I don't see a lot of businessmen soiling their handgrades with slush and salt when they can get into the car via the garage, drive to the underground parkade at their office and return the same way without ever stepping outdoors. Calgary even has the world's most elaborate system of +15s designed specifically to link nearly every single downtown building, so eating out at lunchtime isn't an issue either. It is a frustrating and discouraging place to live if you're a discerning buyer. The blind, nationalistic optic which refuses to admit that Canadian practices might be inferior to their neighbours' only reinforces the country's rigidity to change.
Very true on all counts. I would also add a failure to market themselves properly witness the failure of Dacks (also the reason there is a 20% duty on shoes when Dacks and BATA made their product here). The real challenge is outside of Toronto, Montreal, Calgary and Vancouver most people would not be interested in dropping $600+ Cdn on shoes. The crap sold at Browns is "good enough" even though it's pretty much disposable. There is no easy solution other than the internet. I could see myself ordering from the AE site because the thought of paying what Harry Rosen is asking for them just makes me sick.

To revive this old thread: does anyone feel the tide is shifting slightly? Go to some of the newish menswear places like Nomad, and you'll find a few Aldens. And people certainly seem willing to drop $300+ on whatever they're selling at places like Get Outside.

Very interesting thread I completely must have missed.

I believe Toronto would have a market for proper shoes if there was a retail offering of said shoes. Bay street needs to see their co-workers wearing drool-inducing C&Js before they even google the brand. There's no way a store of that nature wouldn't do very well in a city of that size with that many financial folks.

Judge for yourself...how many Torontoians (?) Torontans (?) Torontians (?) even know that there is, much less seek, bespoke shoes in Toronto?

Toronto has at least one if not several good and dedicated makers.

If there's no market for bespoke how can there be a market for "high-end" shoes...no matter how you define "high-end?"

Bespoke is high-end.

Slightly confused: if "Toronto has at least one if not several good and dedicated makers", then there is a market for high-end shoes, whether or not most people know about it, right?

Oh, also: Torontonians.

Originally Posted by shudder

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Slightly confused: if "Toronto has at least one if not several good and dedicated makers", then there is a market for high-end shoes, whether or not most people know about it, right?
Is there? If .00001% of a given (relatively large) population eat dirt (people actually do) is there a market for mud pies?

Oh, also: Torontonians.

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OK, thanks.

Originally Posted by DWFII

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Is there? If .00001% of a given (relatively large) population eat dirt (people actually do) is there a market for mud pies?




Yes.

Isn't there a Rolls dealership in Toronto?

You only need enough customers . Every extra one is gravy.

Originally Posted by Doxe

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There are Santoni and Bontoni shoes available at V Hazelton in TO if you're willing to spend $3,000 on a pair of shoes.

Bontoni RTW for $3,000 CDN?!?! That makes no sense. I was quoted about $1200 US a pair for Bontoni MTM last fall. The exchange rate isn't that lopsided.

Originally Posted by Srynerson

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Bontoni RTW for $3,000 CDN?!?! That makes no sense. I was quoted about $1200 US a pair for Bontoni MTM last fall. The exchange rate isn't that lopsided.

Ignorance plus rich customers = opportunity for the vendors. I was quoted Edward Greens MTO at $1,600 from L'Uomo in Montreal.