1. And... we're back. You'll notice that all of your images are back as well, as are our beloved emoticons, including the infamous :foo: We have also worked with our server folks and developers to fix the issues that were slowing down the site.

    There is still work to be done - the images in existing sigs are not yet linked, for example, and we are working on a way to get the images to load faster - which will improve the performance of the site, especially on the pages with a ton of images, and we will continue to work diligently on that and keep you updated.

    Cheers,

    Fok on behalf of the entire Styleforum team
    Dismiss Notice

whnay.'s good taste thread

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Manton, Jul 30, 2012.

  1. emptym

    emptym Senior member Moderator

    Messages:
    7,321
    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2007
    Foo and Doc, what do you think about the collar construction and/or finishing (for want of a better term)?

    I think that's an element that's largely been missed in this discussion. I wear spread collared shirts w/ sport coats all the time, but always w/ soft construction and no starch. No matter what the color or fabric, I don't think I could see myself wearing a stiff, starched collar w/ a sport coat, w/ the couple possible exceptions mentioned above. But maybe that's just a personal quirk, and not a rule of taste, like herringbone ties.:devil:
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2013
    1 person likes this.
  2. sugarbutch

    sugarbutch Senior member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    15,837
    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2010
    Location:
    People's Republic of San Francisco
    emptym: I think we're pretty much in agreement. I was trying to broaden the discussion beyond Stitchy's outfit today.

    DocHolliday: I'm not sure if you're using my comment as a jumping-off point or you're rebutting it. If the latter, I don't disagree with what you say.

    Foo: The two metrics you're conflating are what's historically grounded and what's aesthetically defensible. To use Stitchy's outfit as an example, his relatively smooth, worsted, gray odd jacket combined with a relatively refined, spread-collar, white shirt is aesthetically coherent, if not historically grounded. The discordant element is the rustic tie, even though its pattern and color (or lack thereof) works with the other elements.
     
    2 people like this.
  3. mafoofan

    mafoofan Senior member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    20,795
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2007
    

    No, it is not rough as a Harris tweed, but is just as rough as any other "worsted tweed" and much, much rougher than worsted suiting. Many of my odd jackets are made of similar cloth and I would never think in a thousand years to pair them with a white shirt.


    I wear spread collars with my odd jackets all the time, and like yours they are soft. Still, I'm agnostic on the issue of how stiff they should be. Short of literally being starched and rigid as cardboard (who starches their shirts anymore?), I think it's more a matter of personal preference than anything else. Finishing is another matter. Edge stitching is supposed to be more casual then inset stitching, but I think the streamlined look actually cuts against the grain of the casual odd jacket outfit.
     
  4. DocHolliday

    DocHolliday Senior member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    16,118
    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2005
    Location:
    Tombstone
    

    If memory serves, I was one of the forum's earlier proponents of the buttondown ... but I think the recent insistence on one particular collar with sportcoats has gotten out of hand. BDs look good with the sort of soft-shouldered stuff I typically wear -- and with the Neapolitan stuff SF adores. But I also like a good English spread-collared tattersall, complete with stays, when paired with a more structured coat like you'd see on the Cordings site. As such, I have soft-shouldered tweeds I would never wear with a stiff spread and I have other tweeds that would look all wrong with a BD. It's all about context, and in the right context, the English spread tattersall makes absolute sense. Even the much-decried white OCBD makes sense if you're drawing on mid-century Americana as your reference point.

    SF likes hard-and-fast rules, but the modern clothing vocabulary comes from so many places and periods that it becomes difficult to assign narrow definitions to these things. Especially when the conversation is as general as it tends to be here.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2013
    8 people like this.
  5. mafoofan

    mafoofan Senior member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    20,795
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2007
    Doc, I'm with you on buttondowns. They are great with odd jackets. It's the white ones that are a mixed bag.
     
  6. DocHolliday

    DocHolliday Senior member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    16,118
    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2005
    Location:
    Tombstone
    

    The former, but it's always nice when all sides think I'm agreeing with them.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2013
    1 person likes this.
  7. ColdEyedPugilist

    ColdEyedPugilist Senior member

    Messages:
    1,250
    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2011
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    

    Bismarck would be so proud.
     
    2 people like this.
  8. sugarbutch

    sugarbutch Senior member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    15,837
    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2010
    Location:
    People's Republic of San Francisco
    

    I am enjoying the irony of the bolded part when considering to whom it was addressed.
     
  9. sugarbutch

    sugarbutch Senior member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    15,837
    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2010
    Location:
    People's Republic of San Francisco
    Another datum. Tweedy odd jacket with refined, spread-collar, blue shirt and knit tie. Discuss.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. emptym

    emptym Senior member Moderator

    Messages:
    7,321
    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2007
    ^I like that look a lot. Would like it a little more if the collar was a bit rougher, maybe just more worn. Looks like a wool knit tie, which you don't see much of on SF. I love 'em.

    Thanks for the great discussion, guys, and for your answer in particular, Doc.
     
  11. Big A

    Big A Senior member

    Messages:
    2,112
    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2008
    Location:
    At your house, when you're not there
    

    The second :foo: post I unequivocally agree with today. I'm looking for something stronger than the scotch to calm my nerves.
     
  12. RDiaz

    RDiaz Senior member

    Messages:
    2,668
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2011
    Location:
    Madrid
    I think this was one of my best efforts so far, perhaps even in good taste, so I'll post it here and see if someone is willing to tear it to shreds; there's probably plenty of room for improvement. For a start, I think this would have been better with a buttondown collar, but the shade of blue in my two OCBD's doesn't look that good with this green tweed. Go figure.

    Would you have the elbow patches removed? I like them when wearing this as an odd jacket, but not as a suit...

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    BTW, now that we're on the subject of refined shirts with tweed, this one is quite "dressy" - does the fact it's a bengal stripe save it from being incoherent?
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2013
    3 people like this.
  13. Caustic Man

    Caustic Man Senior member

    Messages:
    7,341
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2012
    Patches are definitely not what I would want on a suit, but this is the type of odd jacket I like. Something with a pattern and a little color, but not too conspicuous.
     
  14. mktitsworth

    mktitsworth Senior member

    Messages:
    2,834
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2011
    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    I have that square. It is my favorite.
     
  15. Claghorn

    Claghorn Senior member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    10,005
    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2012
    Location:
    Texas.
    So this question seems somewhat germane:

    I didn't own any ocbd before SF...and I still struggle a lot with clashing formality both because of wardrobe restrictions and lack of experience with anything outside a suit.

    I've picked up some decent odd jackets since joining and have purchased quite a few oxford cloth (both button down and non button down) shirts to go with them.

    It seems like button down bumps the shirt in the casual direction, so I'm thinking of getting a few non oxford cloth button down shirts to broaden my options. Any advice as to what to avoid or what to purchase?

    @ArrrDiaz: I pinned that fit to a personal board to keep track of stuff I like. I chose the second picture both because of the fabric detail and the lack of elbow patches. If you have a similar suit already, no harm in keeping the patches, but I think I like it better without. No Foo-level analysis behind the preference, I'm afraid.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2013
  16. NOBD

    NOBD Senior member

    Messages:
    8,666
    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Doc wins.

    It was a good experiment, Stitches. There were good tips for improvements too, when it comes to fabrics/texture and seasonality, but you experimented in an interesting direction, in stead of in the usual colour or pattern clash direction many members seem to go.
     
  17. clapeyron

    clapeyron Senior member

    Messages:
    1,693
    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2012
    I agree completely with your assessment, the elbow patches work great with the jacket and the fabric makes for a great suit, but the patches don't really work for me in the context of a suit.

    Would be great if the elbow patches were attached via Velcro or magnets and you could detach them depending on the situation.
    I'm calling the patent office as we speak.
     
    2 people like this.
  18. recondite

    recondite Senior member

    Messages:
    373
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2012
    Location:
    Kulhudhuffushi, Kaafu, Maldives
    I, for one, am fascinated with the idea that a shirt fabric, depending on its finish or color, would be too formal for the indicated sport jacket or for wearing with any sport coat, tweed or other.

    If poplin is too formal, why not wear a shirt of Marcella to add some texture and surface interest that would exceed even your average oxford cloth, or that also considered a "formal" cloth?

    I believe that a monochromatic, or more accurately, achromatic outfit, such as the one in question, would benefit from materials that are in sharp contrast due to their surface finishes. So, I like the smoother shirt in contrast to the worsted jacket and woven tie.

    After all, if an outfit can benefit from contrasting colors and/or tones, could it not also benefit from contrasting textures, especially in an outfit where there are only contrasting tones and no color present?


    Contrast is something that can make a composition attractive to the eye, whether it is found in color, tone, or texture. And a truly monochromatic outfit could use some contrast somewhere in the composition to create interest, so why not a contrast between textures or surface finishes? And why not, as demonstrated?

    I say; yes, yes, and yes.

    Well done!

    [​IMG]
     
  19. RDiaz

    RDiaz Senior member

    Messages:
    2,668
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2011
    Location:
    Madrid
    LOL

    I suggested Velcro in the WAYWRN thread already, but magnets might be a better idea - they don't wear out.
     
  20. crooky13

    crooky13 Member

    Messages:
    7
    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2009
    

    Adopting this train of thought should therefore preclude men from wearing blue shirts with suits.

    There are many "well-dressed" men who have managed to overcome the informality of a blue collar when pairing it with a suit. Prince Charles has a fondness for blue shirts and I am yet to hear anyone describe him as informal.
     

Share This Page

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by