Visit to Yale for Admissions: Need Clothing Advice

[Concordia]

Don't know about that. While I was down the street 12 years ago, an ex-Soros trader was hanging out getting his PhD, and I think most of it had to do with the IR school. No idea what he planned to do with it.

 

[blank]

I'd skip the tie. Blazer, khakis or pants, and brown shoes.

 

[redgrail]

Originally Posted by Concordia

Don't know about that. While I was down the street 12 years ago, an ex-Soros trader was hanging out getting his PhD, and I think most of it had to do with the IR school. No idea what he planned to do with it.

I just checked this out. The MacMillan Center does in fact only offer an MA in IR. This person was most likely doing a PoliSci PhD and had IR as a focus area/research interest.

 

[Pylon]

Originally Posted by redgrail

The fact that he's even saying "IR" means there is a 90% likelihood he's talking about the MA program. AFAIK, Yale does not offer an IR doctorate - most universities don't. If OP is truly on the "academic track", an MA will not help in the slightest. If he's looking for government work, the programs beny mentions vastly outperform Yale.

It is indeed a terminal Master's program in International Relations. The other programs mentioned, for example the Woodrow Wilson School at Princeton, are more focused on International Affairs with a heavy emphasis on public policy and economics. I'm a communicator, creative, academic-type and work well with people, relationships, messages... I'm not a numbers kinda guy.

I'm also considering the Syracuse University program in Public Diplomacy, which more closely mirrors my interests and fortÃ

. The program grants an MS in Public Relations from Syracuse University's S.I. Newhouse School of Public Communications along with an MA in International Relations from the Maxwell School of Citizenship and Public Affairs at SU.

 

[redgrail]

Pylon: First, please don't mistake me as saying Yale's IR program is bad. It's actually very good. By my own subjective measure, top 10 in the Nation. As a person very much involved in the field, it's just hard for me to stay out of debates such as this one.

I'm linking you a ranking FP did in late 2005. You might have already seen this, since you're this deep into researching terminal MA programs, but I'll put it out there in case anyone is interested (you do need to register to view this, but it's free and they don't spam you): http://www.foreignpolicy.com/story/c...?story_id=3292 I don't entirely agree with the rankings, but it does give you some idea of what academics out there think. As far as not being a numbers person, no matter what school you end up at, you will likely have to take some economics and quant. methods type courses (especially if you're lacking econ. from undergrad).

 

[emptym]

Ouch, Georgetown has slipped! Why not GU, Pylon?

 

[surrender]

Not to hijack your thread, but what's the general opinion of the Texas A&M international affairs program? It's my first choice due to cost and proximity to home, and I came away very impressed with the professors (including a former CIA head of counter-intelligence).

I wore a gingham shirt, dry jeans and boots on my tour, too

 

[sologigolos]

Other than the undergraduate school and the law school (given that their business school is certainly not at that level), do rest of Yale's programs have the whole good ol' boy thing going on? for example, I don't think they'd care very much that their math PhD and MSW students were wearing, i don't know, free tshirts and express shorts

 

[beny]

I've always been under the assumption that the trifecta was SAIS/Fletcher/SIPA, with SAIS being most quant/econ heavy (and, IMO, as a Wall St guy, the strongest program of the three). If you're not into numbers, Fletcher offers a pretty flexible program that is a bit softer than SAIS.

 

[redgrail]

Originally Posted by beny

I've always been under the assumption that the trifecta was SAIS/Fletcher/SIPA, with SAIS being most quant/econ heavy (and, IMO, as a Wall St guy, the strongest program of the three). If you're not into numbers, Fletcher offers a pretty flexible program that is a bit softer than SAIS.

I would probably put SFS in there and call those four the top tier of IR MAs.

Originally Posted by surrender

Not to hijack your thread, but what's the general opinion of the Texas A&M international affairs program? It's my first choice due to cost and proximity to home, and I came away very impressed with the professors (including a former CIA head of counter-intelligence).

I wore a gingham shirt, dry jeans and boots on my tour, too

I have no idea. Texas A&M is not particularly well known for IR, but the program could be quite good - I just don't know enough about it to say. I've never looked at it in detail. Looks like it has about 70% job placement, mostly private contractors to the federal government. If that's what you want to do, then it seems like a fine choice.

 

[koolhistorian]

Originally Posted by Pylon

It is indeed a terminal Master's program in International Relations. The other programs mentioned, for example the Woodrow Wilson School at Princeton, are more focused on International Affairs with a heavy emphasis on public policy and economics. I'm a communicator, creative, academic-type and work well with people, relationships, messages... I'm not a numbers kinda guy.

I'm also considering the Syracuse University program in Public Diplomacy, which more closely mirrors my interests and fortÃ

. The program grants an MS in Public Relations from Syracuse University's S.I. Newhouse School of Public Communications along with an MA in International Relations from the Maxwell School of Citizenship and Public Affairs at SU.

Well, IR, in the academic sense, it is not about public diplomacy - disputable between theorists and practitioners if this form of soft power projection is effective or not. SU is a good uni, have some former students there, and they (SU) are making a lot of investment in the faculty. IMHO the first thing is to see who you will work with, what part of the IR is interesting to you (to the young gentleman interested in A&M, a former CIA head of counter-intelligence might be an interesting guy, but not in Theory of the IR, so see if you are security studies oriented, then make your choice), and then make a choice.
How do you dress is totally un-important, just be clean and not with huge holes in your outfit!
And good luck!

 

[LA Guy]

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

If you are applying to a top graduate program, how you dress will mean nothing.

Scores, grades, letters and your prior schooling will determine everything. The competitive nature of these programs focuses faculty on obtaining the best students possible to be competitive with other programs. There is little black magic to this process, it is all almost robotically objective. The only thing that professors take more seriously than choosing graduate students is how to replicate their own ranks.

So, my advice would be not to try to reinvent yourself at the moment. Be yourself, whatever that is, and hope for the best. It's like jumping out of a plane...you're at the stage where you have to let the forces of nature work.

It is very different than undergraduate admissions, and both undergraduate and graduate admissions differ from admissions to professional programs.


- B

I agree with Vox, except for the portion that I bolded. Great grades, great letters, and prior experiences are, unless you happen to have a remarkable stroke of luck (see below), required but not sufficient. Unless you are an undisputed genius. Then you're set (most of the time.)

Having sat on and at in on numerous graduate admissions meetings, and having had many talks with my old advisor, who is the Dean of Graduate studies for one of the most prestigious universities (typically in the top 5, top 10 for sure) in the US, and my father, who was the Head of his department for a long time at a good but not world reknown, school, I'll say that there is a *lot* of black magic involved. Here are some things that you have no control over that occur all of the time:

1) A professor on the admissions committee sees something in your application materials, often something fairly minor, that resonates with him (or her, but more than likely, him,) and advocates very strongly on your behalf
1a) Conversely, someone could see something that seems disingenuous/immature to him, and he will say so, coloring the application for the other members of the committee

2) Your application is considered early on during an admissions meeting. Yes, unless they are complete duds, these tend to be regarded more favorably than applications the committee discusses 2 hours into the meeting. So, your luck could hinge of how the chair of the committee has his stack of applications organized.

3) One of your letters is from a friend/esteemed colleague of a member of the admissions committee, or the relationship could be more obscure. The letter is from the esteemed friends of the mentor of the member of the admissions committee, with whom the committee member once had a wonderful meal and was given some powerful words of wisdom. In either case, the letter is gold. On the other hand, you may have a letter from someone against whom a committee member holds a great deal of animosity. Yeah, you're starting off badly...

...and it goes on and on. Other considerations: does your champion have the ability to fund you? How strong is the competition that year (this can vary widely)?

That said, dress well, conservatively, but not too "dressy". Tie is optional, and I'd eschew the blazer in favor of a v-neck sweater in a conservative color. Definitely do not wear both a blazer and a tie. You are not working the desk at 30 rock. For trousers, grey flannels are safe... and comfortable. Wear decent, clean shoes, but nothing that really calls for attention. No jewellry, including tie clips or cufflinks.

 

[beny]

Originally Posted by redgrail

I would probably put SFS in there and call those four the top tier of IR MAs.

And how would these 4 rank?

 

[redgrail]

Originally Posted by beny

And how would these 4 rank?
At this level, it's pretty much impossible to classify one as "better" than the other. It's more up to personal preference at that point. My own personal and very subjective ranking would be: 1. SAIS 2. Fletcher 3. SFS 4. SIPA Side-observation: the fact that Fletcher is even in the top 4 with its less-than-optimal location speaks volumes about the quality of education there. FWIW, I'm also in complete agreement with LA Guy's point re: "black magic".

 

[beny]

I was supposed to do a joint-degree at Fletcher out of undergrad... I didn't like the school very much and withdrew from the program. Granted, I didn't really need a MALD for my job and my interests aren't gov't work, so I really had no business being there in the first place.