Vintage Dress shoe appreciation, tips, maintenance and advice

[hamercha]

So, now that I live in a much bigger city, there is a Johnston and Murphy outlet store in a local outlet mall. Checked it out; some of the shoes were beautiful, prices in the 110-150 range. Made in India, of course (or wherever). Does anyone know how the quality of these might be? Also: eBay was kind enough to find me a pair of gently used Crown Aristocrafts. The tongues appear to be stitched to the side. Is that normal, or did I run into a defect?

Lot of good quality shoe have tongue stitch to one side so that tongue does not go in.

 

[smfdoc]

They’re the real deal, IMHO. Those should clean up very nicely.

And now, story time:

Weyenberg Shoe Manufacturing Company, has a strange history. Started back in 1892, the company became, effectively, the second Florsheim Company in 1964 when Thomas Florsheim, Sr., after getting into a big fight with his dad Harold Florsheim, essentially took control of Weyenberg (partnering with Frank Weyenberg). The fight was probably over the increasing interference in Florsheim operations by International Shoe Company, which had bought Florsheim, in 1953, for $21 million (220 million in today’s dollars), making the Florsheim family very wealthy, but led to increasing interference in Florsheim operations in what was supposed to be an independent operating entity inside International Shoe (which, at the time, vied with Melville for title of worlds largest shoe manufacture). Florsheim was tiny in comparison to the rest of International Shoe (which had a production capacity of over 70 million shoes), but it became their most important business unit, driving huge retail expansion with solid high-end margins (Florsheim represented 70 % of the premium shoe market). So, of course they had to poke their nose in Florsheim’s business.

So Thomas said “to hell with this International Shoe nonsense”, and went off, buying rival premium shoe maker Weyenberg. Weyenberg never reached either Florsheim or International Shoe Company levels of success, but they were a well known brand, along with subsidiaries like Nunn Bush, Stacy Adams and Brass Boot. The subsidiary brands are still around, but Weyenberg, who shortened their name to Weyco, long ago dropped using their own name, possibly because of questionable marketing like this:

But, things get stranger... Weyco still exists and quite successfully so. And it’s still owned by the Florsheim’s. And when International Shoe Co., imploded in 1994 (then known as Interco), they spun the remaining shoe businesses out into “Florsheim Group”. It was during the tumultuous Interco bankruptcy years that quality really went off a cliff and they started playing with industrial-waste grade materials, like bonded leather (my favorite subject).

After the spin-out into Florsheim Group, the company began off-shoring production, but due to legacy costs and the recession of 2001-2002, Florsheim Group also imploded into Chapter 7. Weyco, having run a tighter operation (off-shoring faster) swooped in and bought the core Florsheim brand and assets, bringing Florsheim back under Florsheim family ownership, but as a brand of Weyco, AKA Weyenberg. And today, they sell a whole bunch of shoes nobody on this thread will buy. The end.

I’m telling you, there’s a great binge worthy drama series waiting to be made about these companies.

"Florsheim, the opera."

 

[wasmisterfu]

I have a thing for 7 eyelet oxfords. Looking at 50’s catalogs and ads drives me crazy because they had so many cool looking shoes with 7 eyelet lacing. When browsing the ‘bay, I’m always on a lookout for that extra row; earlier this week I spotted something odd. A strange 7 eyelet AE wingtip that was not a Boulevard, or a MacGregor. They were clearly dusty, dry and hadn’t seen a shoetree in 30 years. But they had very little wear and the listing had a BIN of just $12.99 and they were my preferred size. So I bought ‘em (it’s what @suitforcourt would have told me to do anyway).

I present to you the 7 eyelet Lloyd wingtip, built on the MacNeil (7) last (one of AE’s best, IMHO). Non-catalog style number 0667, made on Monday Dec 3, 1984:

They’re made from the same upper pattern as the MacGregor, with virtually identical construction details (minus the double sole). But the last shape is obviously very different. They’ve been worn maybe a half-dozen times at best (nearly new). I guess whoever bought them didn’t like ‘em... which is good for me, because I think they’re pretty damn neat.

What you see is just the base finish, as I’ve only done a saddle soaping and a bunch of conditioning. I haven’t put any polish on them, mainly because I haven’t figured out what color to use. I’ve seen plenty of non-catalog Lloyd’s, but none like these.

 

[stook1]

That's a great pair of wingtips. I couldn't figure out how those sold at such a low price on Ebat till I noticed that they're a 14B. There's a smidge more demand in my preferred sizes (10D, 9.5E).

Enjoy them. I dont think I'd mess with the color too much. I'm on mobile so probably going out on a limb judging color but saphir cognac may be a good match if you have it.

I have a thing for 7 eyelet oxfords. Looking at 50’s catalogs and ads drives me crazy because they had so many cool looking shoes with 7 eyelet lacing. When browsing the ‘bay, I’m always on a lookout for that extra row; earlier this week I spotted something odd. A strange 7 eyelet AE wingtip that was not a Boulevard, or a MacGregor. They were clearly dusty, dry and hadn’t seen a shoetree in 30 years. But they had very little wear and the listing had a BIN of just $12.99 and they were my preferred size. So I bought ‘em (it’s what @suitforcourt would have told me to do anyway).

I present to you the 7 eyelet Lloyd wingtip, built on the MacNeil (7) last (one of AE’s best, IMHO). Non-catalog style number 0667, made on Monday Dec 3, 1984:

They’re made from the same upper pattern as the MacGregor, with virtually identical construction details (minus the double sole). But the last shape is obviously very different. They’ve been worn maybe a half-dozen times at best (nearly new). I guess whoever bought them didn’t like ‘em... which is good for me, because I think they’re pretty damn neat.

What you see is just the base finish, as I’ve only done a saddle soaping and a bunch of conditioning. I haven’t put any polish on them, mainly because I haven’t figured out what color to use. I’ve seen plenty of non-catalog Lloyd’s, but none like these.

 

[stook1]

I think I've seen you mention this recently and also implied below. The CG AE saddles come out looking like more typical AE calf once stripped and dyed? I've avoided them because they look like garbage worn but may snag a pair for a project.

Yeah, under those lighting conditions and up close, the creasing is more evident. But, this is contemporary Meermin calf after just 10 wearings:

Put some wax on those Meermin’s and that crease line will look just like those Polished Cobbler AE’s.

Obvious (e.g. really questionable quality CG) looks like these 1997 miIndia Florsheims:

Soon I’m going to have to get out the varnish remover and acetone and get medieval on them.

 

[CWOyaji]

The Church's from this morning. Thrift shop parking lot hood top shot.

Trees, brushing, Bick4, Moneysworth Best Dark Brown shoe cream; Angelus wax polish & dabs of ice water on the toe caps.

 

[wasmisterfu]

I think I've seen you mention this recently and also implied below. The CG AE saddles come out looking like more typical AE calf once stripped and dyed? I've avoided them because they look like garbage worn but may snag a pair for a project.

So I started with these end-of-life, beat to hell Polished Cobbler (CG) 84 McAllister’s with a garbage half-resole that was done on top of an already bunk resoling job:

Stripped them down, gave ‘em a base cream polish finish using:

Then I decided to do a bit more “antiquing” and burnishing and give them some wax (which due to the buffed nature of the leather means only a small amount results in some excellent shine):

All photos above are without trees or packing, so the shape is real.

You can read about the whole ordeal here: https://bit.ly/2FKwIRA

And here: https://bit.ly/2Sg86Fn

 

[wasmisterfu]

Lot of good quality shoe have tongue stitch to one side so that tongue does not go in.

Come to think of it, I can’t think of an Oxford that I own that doesn’t have the tongue side stitch.

 

[suitforcourt]

For all the watch aficionados like @wasmisterfu , here is the Girard Perregeaux that I inherited from my dad. It's from their gyromatic series. I shook it a bit, and will wear until it dies, and then I will turn over to an horologist for servicing.

I wonder how much this is worth? Not looking to sell as it's now a family heirloom.

 

[madhat]

I have a thing for 7 eyelet oxfords. Looking at 50’s catalogs and ads drives me crazy because they had so many cool looking shoes with 7 eyelet lacing. When browsing the ‘bay, I’m always on a lookout for that extra row; earlier this week I spotted something odd. A strange 7 eyelet AE wingtip that was not a Boulevard, or a MacGregor. They were clearly dusty, dry and hadn’t seen a shoetree in 30 years. But they had very little wear and the listing had a BIN of just $12.99 and they were my preferred size. So I bought ‘em (it’s what @suitforcourt would have told me to do anyway).

I present to you the 7 eyelet Lloyd wingtip, built on the MacNeil (7) last (one of AE’s best, IMHO). Non-catalog style number 0667, made on Monday Dec 3, 1984:

They’re made from the same upper pattern as the MacGregor, with virtually identical construction details (minus the double sole). But the last shape is obviously very different. They’ve been worn maybe a half-dozen times at best (nearly new). I guess whoever bought them didn’t like ‘em... which is good for me, because I think they’re pretty damn neat.

What you see is just the base finish, as I’ve only done a saddle soaping and a bunch of conditioning. I haven’t put any polish on them, mainly because I haven’t figured out what color to use. I’ve seen plenty of non-catalog Lloyd’s, but none like these.

Dude. Those are awesome! Starting with a 0, they should be an MTO last change (as I'm sure you've determined)

 

[Oshare]

The Church's from this morning View attachment 1206590
Trees, brushing, Bick4, Moneysworth Best Dark Brown shoe cream, Angelus wax polish & dabs of ice water.
View attachment 1206591

Nice!
Except for the broguing on the cap toes, those are pretty similar to my pair of vintage Churchs. Very nice pair of classic British shoes.

 

[wasmisterfu]

Dude. Those are awesome! Starting with a 0, they should be an MTO last change (as I'm sure you've determined)

Well, I think they’re a store special order (meaning a specific model for a retail chain), all the Lloyd’s I’ve seen from the 80’s and early 90’s have a zero prefix, just like my 7 last oxford Clifton’s from that same era. That said, I don’t know for sure, because, like you said, they also used the 0 prefix for customized MTO. Thing is, I don’t ever recall seeing Lloyd’s with 7 eyelets and cashmere calf, they’re almost always in polished cobbler.

 

[CWOyaji]

Nice!
Except for the broguing on the cap toes, those are pretty similar to my pair of vintage Churchs. Very nice pair of classic British shoes.

Thanks. It's my first attempt at a mirror shine on the toes of a pair of dress shoes. This person does it much better.
I'm practicing for this pair of Alden 2160's that will arrive on Monday.

 

[smfdoc]

I have a thing for 7 eyelet oxfords. Looking at 50’s catalogs and ads drives me crazy because they had so many cool looking shoes with 7 eyelet lacing. When browsing the ‘bay, I’m always on a lookout for that extra row; earlier this week I spotted something odd. A strange 7 eyelet AE wingtip that was not a Boulevard, or a MacGregor. They were clearly dusty, dry and hadn’t seen a shoetree in 30 years. But they had very little wear and the listing had a BIN of just $12.99 and they were my preferred size. So I bought ‘em (it’s what @suitforcourt would have told me to do anyway).

I present to you the 7 eyelet Lloyd wingtip, built on the MacNeil (7) last (one of AE’s best, IMHO). Non-catalog style number 0667, made on Monday Dec 3, 1984:

They’re made from the same upper pattern as the MacGregor, with virtually identical construction details (minus the double sole). But the last shape is obviously very different. They’ve been worn maybe a half-dozen times at best (nearly new). I guess whoever bought them didn’t like ‘em... which is good for me, because I think they’re pretty damn neat.

What you see is just the base finish, as I’ve only done a saddle soaping and a bunch of conditioning. I haven’t put any polish on them, mainly because I haven’t figured out what color to use. I’ve seen plenty of non-catalog Lloyd’s, but none like these.

Soooo nice. Congrats.

 

[wasmisterfu]

That's a great pair of wingtips. I couldn't figure out how those sold at such a low price on Ebat till I noticed that they're a 14B. There's a smidge more demand in my preferred sizes (10D, 9.5E).

Enjoy them. I dont think I'd mess with the color too much. I'm on mobile so probably going out on a limb judging color but saphir cognac may be a good match if you have it.

For now, I’m going to let them be. They look pretty good as is, and I’ll need some time to accurately match the color because they’re a bit odd. As for the price, even 14 B’s don’t usually go for 13 bucks, especially in this condition and color type. Personally, I think the seller made a mistake with the BIN, but being well rated for good reason, did the right thing and followed through (I was half expecting the whole canceled deal thing to happen).