Vass vs. Alfred Sargent "Handgrade"

[Mr. Pink]

Originally Posted by Burton

C One significant difference that I believe makes EG & AS superior is the bed lasting. I believe there is a video floating around which shows this being done and where EG claims they are the only ones doing it. My understanding is that AS does it as well.


Here's the only reference I could find to "bed lasting."

Could you explain what "bed lasting" is and why it is superior?

 

[Pliny]

Originally Posted by Slewfoot

Pliny - thanks for comparing the two! I find the calf leathers used by Vass and the English makers to be quite different as Forex mentioned. The Vass seems smoother while the English seems a bit more grainy. Tough to say which is better although the grains of the English leather definitely seems to lend itself for more antiquing.

I'd say this pair of AS Handgrade is the best example of their calf leather I've seen in pictures. It looks very refined. I think they've only gotten better in this regard which is good to see they are constantly looking to improve.

I too am not a construction expert although I'm sure they're both on a very high level.


cheers Slew, I'm a bit confused about who uses what leather. Some say Vass uses Aniline, English makers use crust. But according to Manton in an earlier post some English makers use crust or semi-crust and some use aniline. In any case I wonder if there really is any relationship between treatment (aniline or crust) and thickness, as forex sugests. Chay told me my HGs are semi-crust.
Manton: 'One of the reasons for that, John Lobb does not like to work with crust leather (as far as I know, they do not use at all. Actually, apart from EG, nobody in England likes to work with the stuff, not even bespoke makers. Unless you know exactly what you'r doing and do it day-in, day-out like EG or Berluti, it is extremely unpredictable. You can make an entire shoe and when you start dying the finished shoe, some fault in the leather, which you had not seen beforehand, suddenly jumps out and your shoe becomes a reject. At G&G they developed a method to pre-dye or pre-wax (can't remember) the uncut skins, hoping that it will show up the irregularities; but, according to Tony: "It's not perfect".
Perhaps Chay and co have been slowly perfecting their work with semi-crust.

 

[pebblegrain]

Originally Posted by fritzl

is this the only proof we have? then we can move on. no worries.

i like the look and i doubt, it's a disadvantage... ...but i'll do a research.

There are valid reasons to prefer a seamed heel counter. It allows 2 curved seams to be mated together and sewn with less stretching (i.e. stress) on the leather to deform to that shape.

I'm not saying this is the reason. But it's possible.

 

[Slewfoot]

emptym - Interesting points. I feel like there are so many differing opinions out there that I'm not going to think too hard about who is doing what. The truth is always in the final product and what one's preference is when feeling it in their hand (or foot!).

 

[forex]

Best thing is to own both AS and Vass. I don't understand why this comparison was even started. As I mentioned elsewhere, AS is twice the price of Vass and thus is a better finished and possibly even a better shoe but Vass probably offers a better value.

 

[Slewfoot]

Originally Posted by forex

Best thing is to own both AS and Vass.

Couldn't agree more!

 

[Pliny]

Burton that medallion in your pic is sweet. and the leather is immaculate. Speaking for themselves. I think the AS HG are an evolving thing, which is exciting - just getting better and better. BTW something else I forgot to mention about the AS is the trees. They have the concave 'instep' and breather hole to allow air circulation - bonus

 

[fritzl]

Originally Posted by Pliny

This image below shows the thickness of the AS leather (on the left).

i prefer the definitely nicer interior of the VASS. the AS seems not even close to the VASS. fwiw, it looks primitive and rugged.

 

[fritzl]

Originally Posted by Slewfoot

The truth is always in the final product and what one's preference is when feeling it in their hand (or foot!).

+1

 

[NORE]

Of the brands mentioned in this thread I own C&J, EG & AS and having dealt many times with each firm I can say that the customer service of AS is second to none.

Having said that, the current price asked is more than fair for the amount of product and personalised customer service you get.

 

[Pliny]

Originally Posted by fritzl

i prefer the definitely nicer interior of the VASS. the AS seems not even close to the VASS. fwiw, it looks primitive and rugged.

?????? what can i say Fritzl? it just aint. robust rather than rugged.

 

[fritzl]

Originally Posted by Pliny

?????? what can i say Fritzl? it just aint. robust rather than rugged.

nothing. you like them. that's the only thing which is important.

 

[Col.Sanders]

I would really like to buy Sargents but as the company is curently up for sale I am really concerned! Is it worth a gamble??

 

[Slewfoot]

Originally Posted by Col.Sanders

I would really like to buy Sargents but as the company is curently up for sale I am really concerned! Is it worth a gamble??

Col. Sanders - please explain how you heard that the company is for sale. Any insights are appreciated as no one else on this forum seems to have heard that and your only two posts have now mentioned this.

 

[Burton]

Originally Posted by Col.Sanders

I would really like to buy Sargents but as the company is curently up for sale I am really concerned! Is it worth a gamble??

Why? Were you afraid you wouldn't be able to get a replacement fuel pump?