"Trying Too Hard";can someone explain?

[Hard2Fit]

Originally Posted by Holdfast

Speaking in generalities rather than about specific posts, I suspect it's about consistency between character and clothes. When there's a dissonance between the two, people use terms like "trying too hard" to convey the dissonance.

Well said.

 

[polar-lemon]

I like Holdfast's use of the word dissonance. For me, someone who is trying too hard looks, for whatever reason, uncomfortable in his clothing. If you go to a bar wearing a tie and are self-conscious about it, you are trying too hard. If you go and you say, ******* I'm wearing a tie because I want to, you're not.

 

[DocHolliday]

Originally Posted by iammatt

If you call attention to yourself you are either trying too hard, or you just suck.

I agree with you, but we both own coats with bound edges and other, shall we say, theatrical items.

It really is how you wear the stuff, and what your intentions are in wearing it.

 

[whiteslashasian]

OMG dudez, I totally saw a dude at the bar last night trying so ******* hard. I was like "chill bro, you don't need to bring in your modern cut 2 button, dual vent, high gorge, slim lapel suit with the flat front pants and black cap toes to the diveish bar lulz."

He was like "yo, I'm so ******* igent, I'm wearing my navy and red rep tie with a tie pin to make sure I gots the extra sprezzatura...whatever that is".

He even had the medium length hair slightly disheveled, to give more of that nonchalant elegence look he's aspiring for.

However, he lost 10,000 igent points for not having a pocket square. I made sure to knock him for the sartorial sin by calling out his mother for not dressing him correctly.

...

Seriously though. No one else in the whole bar was wearing anything close to Mr. Suave. I think I might have seen one sportcoat the entire night. Everyone I was with commented that the guy looked really smug, arrogant and just out of place. Can he has dissonance?

 

[whiteslashasian]

Originally Posted by DocHolliday

I agree with you, but we both own coats with bound edges and other, shall we say, theatrical items.

It really is how you wear the stuff, and what your intentions are in wearing it.

That is very true. The ability to project your intentions in a natural manner to others helps a lot as well.

 

[derum]

Originally Posted by DocHolliday

It really is how you wear the stuff, and what your intentions are in wearing it.

Exactly, it is the art of losing yourself in an attempt to reach some theoretical perfection, to strictly adhere to some inflexible "rules". Many people try too hard, instead of trying to define their own style. As I said in a previous post, it's all about style (you can work within the framework of those aforesaid rules), and without individual style we may as well call this "styleforum" simply "forum"

 

[DocHolliday]

Originally Posted by derum

Exactly, it is the art of losing yourself in an attempt to reach some theoretical perfection, to strictly adhere to some inflexible "rules". Many people try too hard, instead of trying to define their own style. As I said in a previous post, it's all about style (you can work within the framework of those aforesaid rules), and without individual style we may as well call this "styleforum" simply "forum"

I agree with you about the importance of individual style, but put less blame on adherence to the rules. Think about streetwear. It's still quite possible to look like you're trying too hard -- moreso even than in traditional styles, perhaps --- even though the rules are less formalized.

I tend to come back to the belief that a guy needs to know the rules to break them successfully. You can get away with a detail that is "wrong" as long as everything else is clearly right. But an ill-fitting suit or an oversized shirt collar will automatically doom the whole enterprise to failure.

 

[derum]

Originally Posted by DocHolliday

I agree with you about the importance of individual style, but put less blame on adherence to the rules. Think about streetwear. It's still quite possible to look like you're trying too hard -- moreso even than in traditional styles, perhaps --- even though the rules are less formalized.

I tend to come back to the belief that a guy needs to know the rules to break them successfully. You can get away with a detail that is "wrong" as long as everything else is clearly right. But an ill-fitting suit or an oversized shirt collar will automatically doom the whole enterprise to failure.

Well put. I was, of course, taking for granted that the clothes would actually fit correctly. And further to your comment on streetwear, with which I fully concur, perhaps we should add some golfwear too.

 

[bmulford]

I had another thought on this topic. Aside from what's been said already, I've seen 'try hard' happen when someone has no idea what makes a particular outfit good or not - so they do everything at once. Quantity over quality. For example, someone learning about style gets so enthusiastic that they put on red incotex chinolino's (because SF say's they're awesome), paul smith stripey socks, dramatically spread collar shirt, corded jacket a size too small, bowtie, tie clip, bold etro pocket square, etc. As if style could be summed up by an incremental formula. Keep adding approved articles and your score goes up. Once they realize what works for their build, facial structure, skin tone, and lifestyle the try hard fades away. Not because they don't care anymore, but because they make choices that elevate them as individuals, and not as a living mannequin for best-of collection of brands.

 

[AJL]

Originally Posted by antirabbit

I sought to be employed in a field where I would be able to wear attire that I enjoy, which happen to be suits and sport coats (depending on the kind of meetings I am in). What I found once there was an expectation to wear what I enjoy as a "uniform), is there was no trying. A pattern developed, certain kinds of shirts, certain kinds of ties, and certain shoes worked, others drew too much attention to my outfit. The purpose of the more formal dressing is to convey a seriousness and respect for the client, now show off how I can wear a certain style. I have streamlined the wardrobe to reflect this. Its also why I do not post in WAYWRN thread, I have nothing to really contribute. I could fluff it up, but why? I still love to put on suits (albeit nearly daily), and I enjoy the process of piecing it all together, but the purpose is to fit the role, not show off. Showing off=trying to hard. Time and experience develops confidence, which eliminates "trying too hard".
This brings to mind an interesting question(s) that has previously occurred to me: If your place of employment no longer required you to dress a particular way, or to cater to a client's perceived needs, would you continue to dress as you do now? Would you feel freer to attempt some of the bolder looks displayed by the WAYWRN gang? Would you continue to dress up, or adopt a more casual style? I would ask this question of anyone here as it pertains to their particular situation, i.e. if you are currently employed in a casual yet conservatively attired workplace, would you add more formality, or perhaps attempt some of the more edgy looks on SW&D, etc.? How sartorially constrained do you feel by your workplace?

 

[Film Noir Buff]

Trying too hard can include trying to put too much uniqueness into a standard item. I see some business shoes where people get the cobbler to get cute with the medallion pattern which to me is exactly what you do not want. That is the strain of making sure you get credit for the custom allure of an item. While I do not think that one should never get credit for the custom allure of an item, I think the concept of "trying too hard" is when you execute it in the wrong manner or on the wrong object.

I think one can try too hard in the direction of too much minimalism and boiler plat style as well. Sometimes everything being dark, solid and plain can go horribly wrong.

Perhaps the path to trying to hard is focusing on individual items without being able to see them as part of the entire outfit. It seems to me that when this is done, there is a tendency to over do it and the result is sort of a thrift store effect.

Equally, following rules without questioning them runs people in some trouble. The entire fallacy of patterns should be separated with solids seems to stunt a lot of stylistic growth. For example, someone might see that a combination doesn't work but according to the rules, it must, so the inner eye is happy with the results, even if the objective eye sees a problem.

There may be no cure for this. Further, it may be that people who continually ask for help being individual or unique are most at risk of failure in this respect.

 

[JayJay]

Originally Posted by AJL

This brings to mind an interesting question(s) that has previously occurred to me: If your place of employment no longer required you to dress a particular way, or to cater to a client's perceived needs, would you continue to dress as you do now? Would you feel freer to attempt some of the more fashion forward looks of the WAYWRN gang? Would you continue to dress up, or adopt a more casual style? I would ask this question of anyone here as it pertains to their particular situation, i.e. if you are currently employed in a casual yet conservatively attired workplace, would you add more formality, or perhaps attempt some of the more edgy looks on SW&D, etc.? How sartorially constrained do you feel by your workplace?
I don't feel constrained at all. There are times when formal business dress is required, but not always; yet, I'm almost always dressed in suit and tie. On the rare occasion when I dress more casually, no one cares.

 

[eg1]

Originally Posted by AJL

This brings to mind an interesting question that has previously occurred to me: If your place of employment no longer required you to dress a particular way, or to cater to a client's perceived needs, would you continue to dress as you do now? Would you feel freer to attempt some of the more fashion forward looks of the WAYWRN gang? Would you continue to dress up, or adopt a more casual style? I would ask this question of anyone here as it pertains to their particular situation, i.e. if you are currently employed in a casual yet conservatively attired workplace, would you add more formality, or perhaps attempt some of the more edgy looks on SW&D, etc.?

I began wearing tailored clothes only for the purpose of work. I am now comfortable enough wearing them that I will also do so casually. I suspect that when I retire the suits will also be retired and the sportcoats will remain.

The term "fashion forward" makes my knuckles itch.

 

[AJL]

Originally Posted by eg1

I began wearing tailored clothes only for the purpose of work. I am now comfortable enough wearing them that I will also do so casually. I suspect that when I retire the suits will also be retired and the sportcoats will remain.

The term "fashion forward" makes my knuckles itch.

Take it easy, killer. FTFY: "Would you feel freer to attempt some of the bolder looks displayed by the WAYWRN gang?"

Better now?

 

[merkur]

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