Tie basics 101

[SirJamesWinston]

I had thought that as well, but then read from one of the elders that he does not wear woven silk ties with odd jackets. His point on grenadines is that they are a formal tie and as such would look out of place with odd jackets. I may eventually reject this view, but for now, while a n00b, I will go with it. If you have a very basic (12 or less) tie wardrobe, sure out of desperation, but would not a silk knit tie be better than a grenadine with odd jackets? I love the color of my KW Burgundy grenadine and it would go great with a navy blazer color-wise (more so than that red silk knit), but for now the rule forces me to wear the knit or keep looking for a burgundy knit (KW's burgundy knit looks too dark). I like having rules at this stage as they force me to be disciplined. Later, if I so desire, I can branch out. I have worn the burgundy grenadine with a light blue spread color and navy v-neck lambswool sweater sans jacket, and it looked good, but that also violates a rule I may add to my growing list: no jacket=no tie.

 

[Claghorn]

I wouldn't go as far as to rule out grenadines, or any woven silks, for odd jackets, provided those odd jackets aren't particularly countrified. Woven silks, provided they aren't too city, work fine with the majority of worsted wools.

 

[PiCcolocV]

I wouldn't go as far as to rule out grenadines, or any woven silks, for odd jackets, provided those odd jackets aren't particularly countrified. Woven silks, provided they aren't too city, work fine with the majority of worsted wools.

+1, particularly with the grossas, the texture (almost verging on knit-like) is what helps make solid grenadines so versatile.

 

[archibaldleach]



I had thought that as well, but then read from one of the elders that he does not wear woven silk ties with odd jackets. His point on grenadines is that they are a formal tie and as such would look out of place with odd jackets. I may eventually reject this view, but for now, while a n00b, I will go with it. If you have a very basic (12 or less) tie wardrobe, sure out of desperation, but would not a silk knit tie be better than a grenadine with odd jackets? I love the color of my KW Burgundy grenadine and it would go great with a navy blazer color-wise (more so than that red silk knit), but for now the rule forces me to wear the knit or keep looking for a burgundy knit (KW's burgundy knit looks too dark). I like having rules at this stage as they force me to be disciplined. Later, if I so desire, I can branch out. I have worn the burgundy grenadine with a light blue spread color and navy v-neck lambswool sweater sans jacket, and it looked good, but that also violates a rule I may add to my growing list: no jacket=no tie. 

In general, I'd say a lot of rules that apply to odd jackets do not apply with the same force to navy blazers, at least in the United States where a navy blazer seems to occupy a level of formality somewhat between that of a suit and of most other odd jackets. For example, white shirts are perfectly fine with a navy blazer as are black shoes, especially in the evening, while some forum elders would not wear black shoes or white shirts with any other odd jackets.

I agree that it is good to have and follow rules until you know enough to make an informed decision to break them (and I would add the no ties without a jacket rule to your list). Just make sure the rules are serving you rather than the other way around. IMO I've found that the texture of grenadines gives them enough visual interest to work with odd jackets and find this trumps any considerations of formality, but I may be alone in this.

 

[PiCcolocV]

As a proof of concept, thought this grenadine worked reasonably well with an odd navy blazer (x-post from WAYRN).

 

[Academic2]

In general, I'd say a lot of rules that apply to odd jackets do not apply with the same force to navy blazers, at least in the United States where a navy blazer seems to occupy a level of formality somewhat between that of a suit and of most other odd jackets. [...]

This is consistent with my experience as well.

Cheers,

Ac

 

[SirJamesWinston]

If the blazer has gold buttons, the grenadine is too dressy. If it does not, than what you have is closer to a mismatched suit, assuming the gentleman is wearing the SF standard grey wool trousers. I don't think the picture looks bad, but that blazer could easily pass off as a suit jacket. A green silk knit would look better, and a widely spaced striped tie even better.

My blazer has the standard gold buttons. I tried it with my grenadines and it looked off. I may reserve my regimental (striped) ties for my blazer as I don't like how they look with suits. At this point, I am not even sure I like how silk knits look with a blazer, but I will reserve judgment until I get a few more knits. If I got rid of the gold buttons, I would have no problems with silk knit ties.

I see no advantage of grenadines over knits with odd jackets. The point of an odd jacket is that they are not as formal as a suit. Why increase the formality with grenadines? My preference for informal, would be a down played suit with a knit, a blazer with a striped tie, or an odd jacket like a tweed or houndstooth with a silk knit. If in the colder months, substitute a wool tie. If warmer, cotton or linen.

Another way of looking at it is the blazer makes a very strong statement, as do striped ties, thus a natural non-suit pairing, both with military backgrounds. I don't like striped ties with suits as they overwhelm the suit, unless you pair it with a strong patterned shirt in a different scale than the tie. I prefer the understated elegance of the grenadines to go with suits.

 

[PiCcolocV]

If the blazer has gold buttons, the grenadine is too dressy. If it does not, than what you have is closer to a mismatched suit, assuming the gentleman is wearing the SF standard grey wool trousers. I don't think the picture looks bad, but that blazer could easily pass off as a suit jacket. A green silk knit would look better.

My blazer has the standard gold buttons. I tried it with my grenadines and it looked off. I may reserve my regimental (striped) ties for my blazer as I don't like how they look with suits. At this point, I am not even sure I like how silk knits look with a blazer, but I will reserve judgment until I get a few more knits. If I got rid of the gold buttons, I would have no problems with silk knit ties.

I see no advantage of grenadines over knits with odd jackets. The point of an odd jacket is that they are not as formal as a suit. Why increase the formality with grenadines? My preference for informal, would be a down played suit with a knit, a blazer with a striped tie, or an odd jacket like a tweed or houndstooth with a silk knit. If in the colder months, substitute a wool tie. If warmer, cotton or linen.

Another way of looking at it is the blazer makes a very strong statement, as do striped ties, thus a natural non-suit pairing, both with military backgrounds. I don't like striped ties with suits as they overwhelm the suit, unless you pair it with a strong patterned shirt in a different scale than the tie. I prefer the understated elegance of the grenadines to go with suits.

FWIW, buttons on the blazer are smoked MOP (S/S blazer).

 

[NotchLapel]

I'm a relatively short guy 5'5," some tie knots always touch the middle of my belt. The only tie knot that allows me to have the proper length is a full Windsor. So my question is, what is more important the appropriate tie know that matches my collar and face structure or the length of the tie?

 

[PiCcolocV]

I'm a relatively short guy 5'5," some tie knots always touch the middle of my belt. The only tie knot that allows me to have the proper length is a full Windsor. So my question is, what is more important the appropriate tie know that matches my collar and face structure or the length of the tie?

Not the answer you are looking for, but go Sam Hober and get it fully customized for your height.

 

[SirJamesWinston]

That is what I would switch mine to, or mother of pearl if just a summer blazer. In this case, silk knits would be great!

 

[SirJamesWinston]

I'm a relatively short guy 5'5," some tie knots always touch the middle of my belt. The only tie knot that allows me to have the proper length is a full Windsor. So my question is, what is more important the appropriate tie know that matches my collar and face structure or the length of the tie?

Hober would be good though $80+. Could also look on ebay for short ties (listed as a search option), or youth ties.

 

[PiCcolocV]

Regarding silk knits with blazers, I am not a fan of flat-bottom ties or ones that are super skinny. This is what the majority of knit ties out there look like, so would I be fine I went for a 3.5" pointed-end knit? Is the slight increase in texture compared to a grenadine grossa sufficient enough to match the casualness of the blazer? Or are the flat bottom and/or narrower width part of what makes the knit contextually appropriate vs. a grenadine?

 

[SirJamesWinston]

I don't know. I don't like 3" knit ties as they look too wide on me, whereas a 3" grenadine looks great (with a suit). 2.5" to 2.75" is about right for a knit and they don't look skinny. Skinny is closer to 2" or below. Kent Wang makes a point end 2.75" knit, and even sweet two colored knits. Flat bottomed is more casual, but it is also the texture, which is knobby from a distance (a grenadine is not), and that it is much more of an open weave (in my limited experience). Could always just go with a 3.5" striped tie with the blazer. I don't think many are going to notice. What gets critiqued here passes over most, which is why basic rules are nice if you are starting out like me.

 

[PiCcolocV]

Thanks for the thoughts - anything below 3" I just don't find appealing but certainly something to consider.