these doc martens I got for cheap

[soulstylist]

...yea, a lot of the older guys at least look very RAB (though they might be still djing soul and reggay). My theory is, that a style consisting of 47 Levis and a workshirt just looks better with a huge beer gut (20+ years of heavy drinking!!!!) than a Staprest and a slim cut shirt - it kind of makes sense.

...so - I'm off to a soul night at a rockabilly place....

 

[javyn]

Didn't read this thread in its entirety, but I hope no one here is equating skinhead with racist/nazi. After all, it was blacks who started the whole skinhead movement in Jamaica to fight against prejudice in the first place.

 

[Nico Samuel Pleninsek]

I just picked up a pair of MIE eight hole in black.

 

[Get Smart]

Originally Posted by soulstylist

....so - I'm off to a soul night at a rockabilly place....

Martin, that's funny because I'm off tonite to see a soul/trad ska band at a bar that usually does rockabilly on fri nites

Originally Posted by javyn

After all, it was blacks who started the whole skinhead movement in Jamaica to fight against prejudice in the first place.

I think you have your folklore mixed up a bit. blacks didnt start the skinhead movement, it was started by white kids that liked how the black immigrants dressed and turned their "rude boy" style into their own....and skinheads never "fought against prejudice"...it is common to hear from original 60s skins that white and black skinheads antagonized pakistani immigrants in late 60s England (take a close listen to the lyrics from reggay classic "Skinhead a Bash Dem" by Claudette and the Corporation). It was never about any racial unity, just a music and style unity.

and it didnt start in Jamaica....again, fairly common knowledge that many of those reggay/ska artists found on Trojan Records were just cashing in on a trend when skinhead hit its height by 1969, all these bands came out of the woodwork to make a buck riding the skinhead wagon.

 

[javyn]

The rude boys were the original skins.

white kids that liked how the black immigrants dressed and turned their "rude boy" style into their own.

 

[soulstylist]

...too easy...

...the style is more or less an ivy league based mod style with a west indian influence (which itsself is heavily influenced by ivy league) plus terrace fashion. That would make a very smart skinhead...

...mix all this with the dress sense of a fashion impressed 16 year old from south london and you get the mass phenomenon of 1969/1970...

...and take the obvious parts of the allready deluted style and mix it with punk you end up in 1978/1979...

...throw in ****** politics combined with th MOST obvious signs of this cult and you have what is today labeled 'skinhead' by most people. A prick with ears sticking out, wearing too big boots who tends to show how high the wheat grows at home...

 

[Spirit of 69]

Point of order and point of fact now lads.

The DMs made in China are exactly the same as the DMs that were made in Enlgand. Why do I say this? Simple, because when the Chinese company bought DM they of course didn't just buy a supply of shoes and boots and a licence to make footwear they of course bought all the machinery and tools. So the Chinese produced product is exactly the same.

I've compared my new 10 hole cherry reds with my old DMs and there is absolutely no difference whatsoever apart from the new ones don't have "Made in England" on the sole!

I've owned loads over the years. Apart from the aforementioned 10 holes I also currently own a pair of black, steelcap 1o hole Highlanders from the mid 80s and a pair of black Gibsons that are on their last legs but have given good service.

 

[Get Smart]

I think the biggest difference is that the "vintage" Docs being reissued now don't use the smooth leather, but the haircell leather which has a small grainy texture to the leather surface. It also feels thicker than the typical smooth leather and requires a bit more break in, at least IME correct me if I'm wrong, but the reissue MiE Docs are made at the Solovair factory in Northampton, which is where they were originally made (at least that is my understanding) as for durability, I've never had a problem with any Docs whether MiC or MiE....but there are those who post tales of MiC boots falling apart in a few months which i have to

wonder about. It's the same as those who decry a "designer shirt" falling apart after 2 washes or some other radical nonsense.

 

[Spirit of 69]

Yes, that's right the new MiE ones are being made by Solovair, but Solovair were the original makers of the AirWair suspension soles in the UK anyway, under licence from Dr. Martens. And so no one in UK ever referred to Solovairs as Solovairs, they were always called DMs, because basically they are.

My 11 hole Highlanders are Solovairs, as are all Highlanders, but I call them DMs. Highlanders which were always a rare boot to find are as rare now in the new version. The thing with Highlanders is that the leather is extremely soft and flexible and not like the cardboardy leather that some of the MiE DMs of recent years used. So if you ever see a pair of Highlanders on sale, buy them! Extremely comfortable and supple.

Most of the original skinheads in 68, 69 were wearing army boots and other work boots then moved on to Solovairs and later Docs when Dr. Marten started making them in England.

Get some Solovairs while you still can is my advice.

Also that myth abut Chinese DMs falling apart in a few months is crap. I've had a pair for almost 4 years and they look almost as new as the day I bought them.

 

[Spirit of 69]

What a lot of people don't realise is that it wasn't just DM themselves and Soloviar in England that made Docs. You had a few factories in Northampton (the shoe district) making fashion versions, under licence, that became very popular.For example, the high quality very soft slightly pointed Hawkins model made by Hawkins. And they carried those factory names like any other shoe brand carries its makers name.

The Hawkins was basically a softer slightly pointer version of the non-steel Gibson, it had the Airwair sole but the leather was far superior. Finding a pair in your size today is
like hitting the jackpot.

Just found this about the old GT Hawkins factory. http://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/ne...hoe.4163201.jp

 

[Get Smart]

Originally Posted by Spirit of 69

Get some Solovairs while you still can is my advice.

Yes I have a pair of the 1461 styled shoes by Solovair in oxblood (different shade than the DM color, more darker)

When I am in London in a few weeks I'm going to check out the British Boot Co. store in Camden to see if they have the Southerner in stock. I'll also keep an eye out for the Highlander. They seem to carry stock in rare DM style shoes (Solovair, Gladiator, Tredair, Grinders etc)

 

[Get Smart]

Originally Posted by Spirit of 69

The Hawkins was basically a softer slightly pointer version of the non-steel Gibson, it had the Airwair sole but the leather was far superior. Finding a pair in your size today is
like hitting the jackpot.

interesting. I have a pair of Doc Marten shoes, it's NOT the 1461, basically it's like you describe, a slightly pointier toe version of the Gibson. It has the airware sole, and the leather is completely different. In color (it's oxblood but not like any other DM oxblood I've ever seen) and the leather is really soft, like full grain leather (not the stiff correct grain that is used). Made in England of course. I'd always wondered what this model was, as the time I bought them it just looked cool and I didnt really care about its pedigree.

 

[Spirit of 69]

Definitely sounds like a pair of Hawkins you've got there my friend. And now I'm suddenly jealous

When I say soft though, I mean that the leather on the Hawkins was glove quality soft.
Yea the BB Co. is the place to go now in London since the huge DM shop shut down in Covent Garden several years ago.
Solovair also do a very interesting replica of a First World War British military boot, see if the BB Co. are selling that?

 

[Get Smart]

^^ yea I'll see if BB Co. has those WWI replicas

 

[eightbitfit]

Originally Posted by Spirit of 69

What a lot of people don't realise is that it wasn't just DM themselves and Soloviar in England that made Docs. You had a few factories in Northampton (the shoe district) making fashion versions, under licence, that became very popular.For example, the high quality very soft slightly pointed Hawkins model made by Hawkins. And they carried those factory names like any other shoe brand carries its makers name.

The Hawkins was basically a softer slightly pointer version of the non-steel Gibson, it had the Airwair sole but the leather was far superior. Finding a pair in your size today is
like hitting the jackpot.

Just found this about the old GT Hawkins factory. http://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/ne...hoe.4163201.jp

Just found this thread.
I Have worn DMs for 20+ years and have found the Asian made version decent, if not exactly the same.

Of note to this post- I live in Japan and recently found that ABC Mart, which is a big shoe seller here in Tokyo sells these boots:
http://www.abc-mart.net/shop/g/g4716930003025/

I wonder how accurate they are to the originals? The price is very good...
Anyone tried them? I suspect not - seem to be local only...