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The Official Wine Thread

Discussion in 'Social Life, Food & Drink, Travel' started by audiophilia, Jul 20, 2009.

  1. Griffyndor

    Griffyndor Senior member

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    I think at this point most retailers simply factor it into the price of back-vintage white burgs and say "its cheap but the buyer bears the risk". You are buying a lottery ticket. That is unlikely to be a bottle that a retailer has had on the shelf for the past 12 years; rather, it is a bottle that someone sold back because they didn't want to take pre-mox risk. So the retailer has no recourse - can't take it back to the distributor - and doesn't want to deal with returns of premox'd bottles. So I think at this point everyone knows the game. But I suppose different retailers might operate differently. Probably depends on the store, the price, how good of a customer you are and how much you want to complain.
     
  2. djblisk

    djblisk Senior member

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    Any link as to how?
     
  3. Griffyndor

    Griffyndor Senior member

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    You won't be able to tell from the color. You will be able to tell because it tastes and smells like alcoholic apple juice combined with cooking sherry; maderized and undrinkable.
     
  4. Manton

    Manton Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Impressed by Mondavi Reserve 1998. Low rated, so not expensive. Smokey and deep and dry, like I like them.
     
  5. venividivicibj

    venividivicibj Senior member

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    Last edited: Oct 1, 2016
  6. venividivicibj

    venividivicibj Senior member

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    Clearly you can tell by the taste - I was explaining how you could do it before opening so as to be able to possibly return or refund if at all possible.
     
  7. CBrown85

    CBrown85 Senior member

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    Sweet Christ... it's like $45 CDN here for the 03.
     
  8. Griffyndor

    Griffyndor Senior member

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    You can't tell an oxidized white burg by the color. They may show darker, but mature burgundy develops a darker hue than young burg anyway. I've had plenty of prematurely oxidized white burgs that look fine. As to doing so before opening - that's total nonsense. White burgundy bottles are green. You can't tell the color of the wine inside by looking at the bottle.
     
    1 person likes this.
  9. Piobaire

    Piobaire Senior member

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    Burgundy can find more ways to break your heart than any other wine region.
     
  10. venividivicibj

    venividivicibj Senior member

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    Interesting that you're speaking in such absolutes when there is much evidence and experience by many other that runs counter. I never said judging by color was foolproof - please re-read my statements - i said "might be able" and "usually", and then provided links as well to some pretty well known Masters of Wine, etc who also support my point.
     
  11. Griffyndor

    Griffyndor Senior member

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    I can't tell if you haven't read the article that you're linking or if you just don't understand it, but I've contributed quite a bit to the oxidized white burg wiki and here is what it says in what you link:

    "While the combination of an oxidized color and oxidized aromas and flavors most frequently occur simultaneously, it is certainly possible to have a wine with a brilliant youthful-appearing color which exhibits oxidized aromas and flavors. Conversely, it is also possible to have a wine which exhibits considerable browning but no oxidized flavors or aromas. Personally, I’ve experienced more than one example of each."

    So I'm not sure what you are talking about. Serious question - do you have a lot of experience with white burgundy?
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2016
    1 person likes this.
  12. Piobaire

    Piobaire Senior member

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    Recently I attended some lectures being given by a few MS's and they mentioned it is felt the practice of battonage facilitates pre-mox. It causes free SO2 and CO2 to off gas as well as introduces O2 into what was formerly a reductive environment. Not claiming any expertise on the topic of Burgundy pre-mox but repeating what I was told by the MS lecturers.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2016
  13. Griffyndor

    Griffyndor Senior member

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    ^ no one has been able to definitely determine a cause yet, but I think lees stirring is widely thought to contribute. However, roulot has a pretty good premox record and he stirs. I think the best guess right now is it results from a combination of winemaking practices that are intended to reduce exposure to oxygen and actually have the effect of making the wine more susceptible to oxygen. So now you see Burgundians browning the must before fermentation (maybe it's no coincidence that coche dury has always done this and his wines aren't affected by premox). The Germans have typically done this and they don't appear to be suffering from premox.
     
  14. Piobaire

    Piobaire Senior member

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    Based on what I've read and been told by the experts it seems like that time period in the 90s was a perfect storm. Heavy battonage, bad corks, and a move by many producers to greatly lower the amount of SO2 used at bottling. I've also heard it was a "collapse of the middle" type thing as producers were trying to put out wines that would drink young yet still be age worthy. It seems that's a tough thing to do with Chardonnay (if not white wines in general.) Sometimes one really cannot have it both ways.
     
  15. Griffyndor

    Griffyndor Senior member

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    That's the hypotheses. The problem with it is that even as those trends have been reversed premox continues. I've had premoxed wines from the '09 vintage from producers who have changed the practices that you are citing.
     
  16. venividivicibj

    venividivicibj Senior member

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    You do know your quote agrees with my point?

    'the combination of an oxidized color and oxidized aromas and flavors most frequently occur simultaneously'

    I never said it was a rule. I was simply pointing out that 'most of the time' this is the case.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2016
  17. Griffyndor

    Griffyndor Senior member

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    You are totally lost. You don't understand the difference between normal aging of burgundy and premox. You are taking about something you don't understand. And if you think you can see the color of wine through the bottle then I really can't help you.
     
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  18. venividivicibj

    venividivicibj Senior member

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    Okay, whatever makes you feel better man. It's your quote after all.
     
  19. Griffyndor

    Griffyndor Senior member

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    Thanks. I appreciate that. And thanks for sharing your wine expertise with the board!
     
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  20. Piobaire

    Piobaire Senior member

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    Are they back to 1970s level of SO2? I thought the trend of less and making wines more approachable in youth has for the most part remained? Probably something else we can thank Parker for (and I don't have hate for Parker the way some do.)

    I've loved the mature examples of white Burg I've had but am in means an expert. I came into a few bottles of this and it was fantastic. In fact I had a chance to share one of these bottles with some Sty-Fo folks.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2016

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