The non-black dinner jacket thread.

[aravenel]

Black.

 

[LeviMay]

All right, then.

 

[aravenel]

Sorry, should have explained my thoughts. Without the black facings, it would look too much like just a normal jacket IMO. I could maybe see it working with something like a shawl collar jacket where it's clearly not a "normal" jacket, but I'd still probably default to black facings.

I believe the famous Vox tartan DJ had self-faced lapels, but it was very definitely not ever going to be mistaken for anything but a "casual" black tie rig, both because of the shawl lapels and the pattern.

 

[LeviMay]

No apology necessary. Good to hear a definitive answer.

I think the same, that self-faced may look like a sport coat subbing in for evening wear, Vox's stunning example notwithstanding.

I'm leaning strongly toward a Blackwatch DJ with black satin facings. Kind of torn between single- and double-breasted. Although not the norm, would probably opt for side vents regardless.

 

[LeviMay]

Would shawl be preferable over peak?

 

[Ivar]



Would shawl be preferable over peak?

I normally go with peak, but in this case I would go with shawl, since it's sort of in keeping with the smoking jacket tradition. (I can't recall having ever seen a peaked lapel smoking jacket.)

 

[aravenel]



I normally go with peak, but in this case I would go with shawl, since it's sort of in keeping with the smoking jacket tradition. (I can't recall having ever seen a peaked lapel smoking jacket.)

Completely agree. I don't like shawl lapels generally, but I think it's the right answer here.

 

[nh10222]

Steven Hitchcock bespoke Velvet no vent, one button, peak lapel DJ with gros grain waistcoat and bow tie, bespoke Imperial collar by Budd, T & A shirt and PS.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-eKkOKwmqp.../hkfP_Nl_4S4/s640/Smoking-Stiljournalen-1.JPG
Photo Journal of Style



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Great outfit, but isn't the watch chain more of a daytime thing?

 

[Butler]

Why - don't you need a watch in the evening? - mind you wristwatches are a no no with evening wear!

 

[Veremund]

Hardly. If you need a watch, then you need a watch. Evening wear calls for a discreet timepiece. A thin black tank which stays under your cuff is certainly not worse than having the gold chain of a pocket watch strung across one's stomach.

 

[nh10222]

Why - don't you need a watch in the evening?

We are not supposed to need a watch in the evening, nor to be in a hurry, concerned with things other than the occasion at hand etc. Wear a pocket watch with morning dress and other day wear, but go minimalist in the evening, without a watch, if you can.

Then again, if you are a butler, perhaps you could be excused for needing to know the time as part of your duties. Still, you should be able to refer to clocks.

Quote: Veremund
Far better for the evening, in my opinion. Something small and thin, with a plain dial and simple strap, that could be totally concealed, like a Cartier Tank sans second hand, would be the best choice for those who had to shoot through by tram immediately after the conclusion of the evening's hostilities, had a spy mission to accomplish OHMSS or simply couldn't bear the thought of going without a timepiece for a few hours. Just don't spend the whole night checking it.

Anyway, clearly not something many people consider important in today's fast-paced world, in which time is money or some other concern, even in the evening.

 

[table21]

Half the beauty of this jacket is lost as a combination of iphone photography and my lack of a good place to shoot a pic in my condo, however here is my purple zegna silk/cashmere dinner jacket.

 

[ImTheGroom]

Hardly. If you need a watch, then you need a watch. Evening wear calls for a discreet timepiece. A thin black tank which stays under your cuff is certainly not worse than having the gold chain of a pocket watch strung across one's stomach.

I find a wrist watch, if it happens to protrude, to be much less discreet than a pocket watch, which only shows when one opens one's jacket in an informal fashion. If, unlike me, you can get a watch to stay put under your cuff without it driving you bonkers, then it's a fine choice. Though, I agree that this particular watch chain is a little bulky and long for evening wear. I prefer silver (or, in my case silver coloured) jewelry in the evening, and I think a thin, silver chain would be less obvious. If I were to wear gold, I would probably go for a shorter chain that goes across only half of my waistcoat. Knowing my own tendency toward stylish anachronisms, and word play, I would find it hard to make an anachronism of my time piece. I am quite sure I would revive the watch fob, or key chain.

Quote:

I agree that any wristwatch that becomes visible tends to look sloppy, and ruin the elegance of evening wear. As I said above, if it truly stays beneath the cuff, then it makes as little difference as pink and green suspenders under your waistcoat. I tried out a very slim, silver wristwatch with my Tuxedo (I thought it would be better than black, as it goes under the white cuff) but it slides a bit on my wrist (as I find comfortable) and when it popped out, just looked sloppy. I am genuinely curious, do you see many pocket watches and chains at the Black Tie events you attend? BTG's brief description of its history with the Tuxedo is that it became nearly extinct around the turn of the twentieth century, popping up from time to time up through the 1940's, but dying off pretty much completely after that.

 

[ImTheGroom]

So a question: for a non-black/non-blue/non-solid dinner jacket like Voxes - should it have grossgrain/satin lapels or be self-faced?

I am going to go against the trend, here, and say that we should take our cue from the longer pedigreed white DJ, rather than the fringe elements, and go with self-faced lapels, when there would be much contrast with the jacket itself with black. Black Watch is quite dark isn't it? I think black would work, in that case. A red tartan, I would definitely go with self faced. For table21's dark purple, I think the black is very sharp.

For those jackets where the black lapel would create too much contrast, definitely self-faced lapels. A shawl collar certainly does recall the smoking jacket, and indicate it is a dinner jacket, and not a sport coat. With peak lapels, might I suggest facing the collar in black satin, grosgrain, or velvet? It is smaller, and less prominent than the lapel, and its location does not interfere as much with the jacket's lines.

I think the heavily contrasting lapels make the jacket more distracting/eye catching, which makes it less formal than one with self-faced lapels.

 

[cpmac7]

I thought I would add to the fun. Non - Black Dinner Jacket:

Spoiler: Ebay Talk

http://www.ebay.com/itm/251361542808?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1558.l2649